We ran into a bridge!

[JC Reefer]

I would not expect wire rigging to stretch in any notable way, not unless bad things were close to happening. So warnings about not trusting the rig seem reasonable.

You can however secure the fore and aft stays with halyards. Jib for fore. Main for aft. That would hold things in place for a climb.

Inspecting one rig for a larger vessels rig is also doable. You need at least 5 feet of height to be lose enough to make the reach and still see the top of the rig. Didn’t sound like your old boat would make the cut.

If your jib is on a curler then you’d want to drop it and inspect the foil and slide it up and down the forestay.

Check the mast head as the aluminum would also be something that could deform.

Happy hunting.

[JPA Cate]

@SailingAround,

If you have plans for the boat to go far away, say across the Atlantic or up to Newfoundland, then this is a time to consider using Sta-lok or other mechanical, rather than rolled swages, when you re-rig. The instructions are not hard to follow. You do need to have a competent vice to do the work (we stored ours upside down under the head of the V-berth, joked about vise in bed), and a hacksaw for cutting the wire. One roll of wire may do you. You're going to need a really long tape measure, and you'll also want to consider what wire to use--we prefer compact strand rigging, and that's 316 stainless. One can even use galvanized wire, if the budget doesn't go to s/s, it is stretchier than s/s. Incidentally, I don't really agree that s/s wire doesn't stretch; it usually stretches a little the first time you load up the rig on both tacks, and then you expect to tighten the turnbuckles. Be sure to measure carefully before you cut. ("Measure twice; cut once.") We've used Sta-loks, Norseman, and Sea Rig. All good. It is definitely within your capability to learn. Another point you might want the rigger at, is have him or her aboard with you when you go for your first sail after you re-rig it, you'll learn more about tuning the rig, and it will de-mystify the process.

Sorry to hear about your engine, that's obviously on your to do list.

Finally, let me say I am very glad no one was hurt. Some friends were swept onto a bridge, and the lady's hand was crushed between the boat and the bridge when she tried to fend off. The hand's never come completely right, many surgeries involved. Note for newbies: only fend off with boat poles or fenders, not your body, and remember you can break the pole and wind up in the water between boats, so pick your times and be careful.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

There has been a lot of advice upthread and I'll try not to repeat any, but there are a couple of points worth mentioning.

You said that the shrouds are still tight. I believe your boat has a masthead rig with in line spreaders, so if the shrouds are tight this rules out mast step and tang issues as the source of stay looseness.

The fore and back stays in a masthead rig usually are attached to the masthead fitting directly with no intervening tangs. The fitting is often an aluminium casting, but sometimes is a weldment. The cast ones are not very ductile and would most likely not bend enough to cause the looseness... rather they would fracture and fail completely. A welded one could bend or stretch, but the way they are usually designed an athwartships bend would not cause such a pronounced loosening of the stays. None the less, damage to the masthead is a possible source of your problem.

Rigging screws are not commonly stretched... bent or broken examples are seen all too often, but significant stretching seems quite unlikely to me, so I doubt that they are the issue.

The wire itself? Well, as Ann says above, there is usually some initial inelastic construction stretch in new wire, but after that it behaves in an elastic manner under even quite high loads. I suspect that it is possible to exceed those loads in an accident like yours and reach inelastic deformation, but it seems unlikely that the rest of the structure would be strong enough to not have visible damage in such a case.

As mentioned above, it is possible that the mast itself has bent. However, for it to bend in such a way that the shrouds are tight and both fore and back stays are loose seems geometrically impossible to me... but perhaps someone can show me a way it could occur.

So, what's left? The swaged end fittings, that's what! Swages do fail in service with normal sailing loads, especially in older rigs like yours, so it is not beyond belief that one or more of the four terminals in the stays has slipped a bit and caused the symptoms that you report. It should be easy to inspect for this, simply by looking closely at where the wire emerges from the terminal. Any slippage should show up as a change in appearance of the wire between that which was buried in the swage area and that which was exposed to the elements, and slippage at any one of the four would loosen both stays.

Not conclusive, but highly suggestive to me!

Finally, I too think you should have a professional inspection, and I hope that my (relatively inexpensive to repair) thoughts prove accurate.

Good luck!

Jim

[hugosalt]

Welcome to cruisersforum SailingAround.
Sorry for your troubles, as much as they are piling up right now
a rigger will be money well spent and give peace of mind long term.
When things settle down, think about if it would be helpful to be able to deploy a anchor fast. Like immediately without having to think about it.
For me, I try for within 30 seconds and practice on occasion. Some set up stern anchors, some just have to push a button, whatever it takes.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, what's left? The swaged end fittings, that's what! Swages do fail in service with normal sailing loads, especially in older rigs like yours, so it is not beyond belief that one or more of the four terminals in the stays has slipped a bit and caused the symptoms that you report.
Jim

Read thru most of this thread twice.
I'm NOT a pro rigger but have done a fair bit.
What Jim suggests is well within the realm of possibility. A wire can feel quite slack when in fact its only slacked-off a 1/4" or so.
Back off a turnbuckle a 1/4" and it'll feel as though the wire is totally loose/sloppy/floppy.
In days past it was common enough for builders to get their own benchtop mounted machines, (couple hundred lbs.,) which used a pair of dies that linearly meshed, (like a pair of conduit benders meshed together,) rather than have a shop use a 6,000lb rotary machine, (ask me how I know this).
At any rate you'll want a rigger to do inspection work, but you may find that things are not nearly as dire as some would suggest.
Edit: As previous post suggests, having an anchor ready for instant deployment is sound advice
One of my mentors, an old, grizzled merchant marine deck officer and lifetime sailor told me, "Don't you let-go the dock lines without having an anchor ready to let go on a moment's notice".

[donradcliffe]

First look VERY closely at the deck end of the forestay and backstay. As Jim said, look for deformation or slippage. It is not a night time project, or one through binoculars. Then find a rigger who will go up and do the same at the masthead. He will know how to stabilize the mast and how to check the halyard he goes up on.

Is there a noticeable kink in the stay that hit the bridge? It would also need a very close inspection for cracked or broken strands.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by NSboatman

As much of a pain in the arse it may seem to be; dropping a deck stepped mast for an inspection is really not hard- provided you have access to a marina or YC with a mast crane or gin pole. ..

Even a simple visual inspection should employ [at least] a magnifying glass.

[sail sfbay]

Ouch!!

Agree with post #2. I would not sail the boat or attempt to tighten the stays until you determine the root cause of why the stays loosen..........possible damage to the chainplate attachment points.........and repair options.

[sinnerman]

My two cents worth:

- The backstay/forestay tangs were ripped out of the hull (damaged holes in the fiberglass /bent bolts)

- The forestay/backstay fittings have bent pins, torn holes (at hull or mast head)

-The rigging cables were pulled out of their swaged fittings

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by SailingAround

We were sailing around between two bridges today, lost steering and got pushed into a closed highway bridge. We got pulled off and the mast is still up, but the forestay and backstay are now much looser than they were.

I'm concerned about the rigging. We don't have 8k dollars to replace it.

I'm planning on tightening them tomorrow. The wind will be 10-13 mph.

The side stays - the lower cable stays. Are still tight. The mast is keel stepped.

Advice greatly appreciated!

I'd have to ask How much looser?
Take your binoculars, and look around up there for anything obvious.
Inspect the stays, tangs and chain plates on the fore and aft shrouds.
So, the safest way to approach this, is a haul and crane.
I don't think you need that though, you can use halyards to support the fore and aft stays.
It will be adequate.
Boatyarddog

[sailasia]

Its damaged. Nothing would just loosen up. Nothing.

[billgewater]

Is the bridge OK?

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

I'd have to ask How much looser?
Take your binoculars, and look around up there for anything obvious.
Inspect the stays, tangs and chain plates on the fore and aft shrouds.
So, the safest way to approach this, is a haul and crane.
I don't think you need that though, you can use halyards to support the fore and aft stays.
It will be adequate.
Boatyarddog

You don't need a haul to unstep the mast, that would be very unusual unless you are looking for other potential damage.

[thunderhoof]

I don't know why you are on this site. You hit something and something broke. Park immediately and get a competent professional to assess the damage. There is no way that you will sail away from this issue. Many people carry only liability insurance so get out your checkbook.

[scottydaum]

I see where the original poster said it is a keel stepped mast. If there is no obviious damage above decks I would very closely inspect the area where the mast is supported at the keel. I forget the proper term for that piece but it is usually a block of wood the base of the mast rests on. I have seen some which looked fine but when probed with a pick turned out to be on the soft side from age and bilge water exposure.
I think it is quite possible that the shock of the rig hitting the bridge may have transferred the force downward and compressed that support block, which would result in slack in the rigging.
Hope you will let us know how this all plays out. Best of luck!