Using an Assy Spinnaker

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, this is SINGLE BRAID dyneema, so just for leaders -- they won't work on winches -- too slippery. But is it stupid to use this nice cordage like this? Unlike jib sheets a bit of stretch is not a problem, right? Am I overthinking this? Maybe just 12mm double braid poly and call it done? Or is the lightness of 8mm long leaders a big plus in light air?


And I guess the leaders will want to be something like 10 - 12m long, for a 16.4m long boat?

Well, if it was me I'd use the single braid dyneema as leaders and use a nice covered line for where it goes on the winches and is handled. Hoe much leaders? Imagine the assym sheeted really hard, as if you are reaching hard. How much length would be needed to go from the clew to the stern and then to the winch? That is how much could be leader, the rest of the tail, obviously not leader.

I raced a 65' carbon race boat in Sydney Hobart (meaning it was windy) and as I recall we used 8mm for the sheets, covered, the whole length and they were over 2 times boat length.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, this is SINGLE BRAID dyneema, so just for leaders -- they won't work on winches -- too slippery. But is it stupid to use this nice cordage like this? Unlike jib sheets a bit of stretch is not a problem, right? Am I overthinking this? Maybe just 12mm double braid poly and call it done? Or is the lightness of 8mm long leaders a big plus in light air?


And I guess the leaders will want to be something like 10 - 12m long, for a 16.4m long boat?

We mostly use double braid, the kite is gonna stretch a bit anyways. I think our sheets are 1/2" or maybe 9/16" but we do have some light air sheets of about 3/8". The kites are about 3,500 sf, halyards are 1/2" dyneema core, tack line are anything from dock line to spliced wire to dyneema. I like using the dock line when sailing between 120 to 90 AWA, it's quick and easy to go through the chock back to the bow cleat.
I won't jibe on the ocean with a small crew, I prefer to douse and reset. Again my fear is wrapping the kite around the headstay or running over the new lazy sheet.

[slug]

Remember to buy a hundred meters of small stuff to rig foredeck lifeline nets

Rig the Nets to just aft of the shrouds

Keeps the sail on deck when you're moving fast

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by jmh2002
so even if you are constantly trimming, raceboat style with the sheet tail in your hand (and standing on the weather rail, to look the part ), you will still not be feeling the full sheet load

Originally Posted by Pete7

Do people still do that? so last year

Yes they do, and standing on the weather rail is not for looks, it's so you can grab the shroud instead of struggling to stay on the boat.

Originally Posted by jmh2002

They shouldn't, at least not when cruising, as that hand would be better used to hold a beer instead

But if some racing fever takes over during DHs passage, they might be constantly trimming at times.

In an ocean race where waves are present, constant trimming may be required, but on many big racing boats, on long races, the trimmer is sitting at a winch and watching the sail from there.

As for the beer, on our boat we don't drink while racing, safety is an issue.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by wingssail

In an ocean race where waves are present, constant trimming may be required, but on many big racing boats, on long races, the trimmer is sitting at a winch and watching the sail from there.

As for the beer, on our boat we don't drink while racing, safety is an issue.

They were some light hearted comments (for cruising, not racing). In a past life I was full time pro race crew for many years (and thereafter a professional mariner for the rest), so I know the drill

I don't think DH's race is going to be at serious grand prix level, so it's my opinion that some thoughts here should be moderated a bit based on that.

A full race setup is nice of course, but I don't think DH needs all of that.

DH, maybe you can post a link to the race please?

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

6. Sizing -- the luff of the assy should be less than the forestay length, I guess. Much less? What are the size constraints on either end?





Grateful for all advice!

The easiest way is to actually measure from the top of the mast, where your halyard is down to the point where you want to have your tack. Either on the bowsprit, or just above the bow pulpit. The luff of the assym should be about 103% this measurement.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by MartinR

The easiest way is to actually measure from the top of the mast, where your halyard is down to the point where you want to have your tack. Either on the bowsprit, or just above the bow pulpit. The luff of the assym should be about 103% this measurement.

From the other thread:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I found that persuasive, and I have now bought a 200m2 (about 2150 square feet) A2.

[slug]

Originally Posted by MartinR

The easiest way is to actually measure from the top of the mast, where your halyard is down to the point where you want to have your tack. Either on the bowsprit, or just above the bow pulpit. The luff of the assym should be about 103% this measurement.

Remember the snuffed has a pendant that must be added to luff length

[rhpike]

I've raced with symmetrical spinnakers for 35 years. An easy way to remember where to set the pole is perpendicular to the apparent wind. Then, ease the sheet until you have a slight curl at the top of the leach, ie the side of the spin that has the sheet attached to the clew.

[Dockhead]

I've got an issue with the spinnaker pole car.


The old one didn't fit (ring was too small) and I got rid of it.


I have a car which came with the pole, but the problem is my track is 30 RCB and this car is for a 32mm T-track.


The rigger says I shouldn't just rip the track off and replace it because it will weaken the mast.


I could machine the car slightly and it would fit, but I'm afraid it would rip the alu track up -- I'm not sure this connection would be that strong.


So what to do?


If I can fit a simple ring to the mast at the yankee clew height -- a 2.5 meters maybe above the waterline -- will it cause problems with running the A2? If I can't keep the pole exactly horizontal?


I don't really understand the forces involved.


Grateful for any advice.

[Pete7]

I think this needs a call to either Harken or Selden in Denmark.
Harken have 3 dealers near you.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I think this needs a call to either Harken or Selden in Denmark.

Pete

We're talking to Selden. No straight answer so far. I believe the folks on her more -- greater cumulative experience.

[Pete7]

I had a similar problem with my pole which has the old cup and socket arrangement. This fell out of favour I think because you can't "end for end" the pole, not that I need to do this. In the end I found a steel car in a boat jumble and had a local welder add two plates to take the cup.

Since your problem is the 30mm track and having just popped into ProBoat in Gosport for you, they don't have any 30mm fittings.

So why not have the rigger drill, tap and set screw a 3m length of 32mm track to the existing 30mm track? That solves your problems in an instant as there are lots of 32mm fittings. There is also a 35mm size range if you are worried about the loads.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I had a similar problem with my pole which has the old cup and socket arrangement. This fell out of favour I think because you can't "end for end" the pole, not that I need to do this. In the end I found a steel car in a boat jumble and had a local welder add two plates to take the cup.

Since your problem is the 30mm track and having just popped into ProBoat in Gosport for you, they don't have any 30mm fittings.

So why not have the rigger drill, tap and set screw a 3m length of 32mm track to the existing 30mm track? That solves your problems in an instant as there are lots of 32mm fittings. There is also a 35mm size range if you are worried about the loads.

Pete

And I HAVE the right spinnaker car in 32mm T-track.



That was my thought, but the rigger says it will weaken the mast.

[Pete7]

Removing and replacing perhaps, but bolting new track to old assuming there is sufficient material needn't weaken the mast, unless I am missing something.

Is the 30mm track thick enough that he could get a dozen 6mm set screws into it over a 3m length?

Pete