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Old 24-05-2020, 10:12   #1
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Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

I have a fixed length Spinnaker pole on my tartan 37 that is mounted on the deck. My Genoa is a 130. Can I use the fixed length Spinnaker pole to pole out the Genoa or do I need an adjustable length whisker pole?

I have a asymmetrical Spinnaker on the boat so the pole hasn't seen any use currently, but I would like to use it to pole out the Genoa if possible.
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Old 24-05-2020, 10:35   #2
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

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Originally Posted by felizcortez View Post
I have a fixed length Spinnaker pole on my tartan 37 that is mounted on the deck. My Genoa is a 130. Can I use the fixed length Spinnaker pole to pole out the Genoa or do I need an adjustable length whisker pole?

I have a asymmetrical Spinnaker on the boat so the pole hasn't seen any use currently, but I would like to use it to pole out the Genoa if possible.
Sure , it will work

The pole is a bit short for a big Genoa

If you plan on crossing oceans you should change your headsail

Poled out sails are best if they are non overlap , high cut , short leech
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Old 24-05-2020, 11:02   #3
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

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Originally Posted by felizcortez View Post
I have a fixed length Spinnaker pole on my tartan 37 that is mounted on the deck. My Genoa is a 130. Can I use the fixed length Spinnaker pole to pole out the Genoa or do I need an adjustable length whisker pole?

I have a asymmetrical Spinnaker on the boat so the pole hasn't seen any use currently, but I would like to use it to pole out the Genoa if possible.
You probably have the 130% Genoa on a roller furling device. Just roll it up until the spinnaker pole can stabilize it for sailing wing and wing.

Paul
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Old 24-05-2020, 11:27   #4
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

That is what I did for tens of thousands of trade wind sea miles. A 130% is too big for this - I used a 110%. As Paul said, you can partially furl it but I think the wear on the sail would destroy it.

A big advantage of using a spinnaker pole is to pass the jib sheet through the pole end and fix the pole in place. Then you can set and furl the jib without messing with the pole. Makes reducing sail during squalls a simple task.
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Old 24-05-2020, 14:02   #5
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

How long is the pole?

I have a whisker pole that goes to 22’ and use all of that on a 36’ boat and 130 genoa. While you can use a shorter (and heavier) pole, the reduced sail area in lighter winds is not ideal.

Ignore the picture above. They seem to have a spinnaker and poled out sail.
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Old 24-05-2020, 15:03   #6
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

I never liked whisker poles

Clumsy to handle and way too long

A long pole gives terrible sheet, guy leed angles

These sharp leed angles Subject the pole and mast track to excess compression loading

Track failure is the no 1 issue when sailing poled out

Better to fly a smaller sail poled to windward and your big sail, Genoa, code sail... to leeward
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Old 24-05-2020, 15:55   #7
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

I am not understanding why people think that the biggest jib that can be poled out is a 110... we sail downwind with TWO headsails, each are about 135%, almost 1500 sq feet of sail. Easy to rig, easy to shorten or furl, just plain easy,--even for two old crows--on a big boat.

We have done it for days and days when the wind cooperates. A safe, easy, quiet, dry, comfortable point of sail. For us, our VMG with the wind is faster DDW than it is reaching off at 150deg for any true wind speed greater than 8 knots or so.

https://fetchinketch.net/2016/06/26/...d-sailing-rig/

If your downwind poles are that hard to set up, you either don't know how, or they are not set up right (or both!)
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Old 24-05-2020, 16:20   #8
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

You are fastest when the foot of the poled out sail is perpendicular to centerline

You can also sail higher angles in light winds without the sail collapsing

To accomplish this with a big overlap genoa would require a very long pole
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Old 24-05-2020, 16:56   #9
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

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You are fastest when the foot of the poled out sail is perpendicular to centerline

You can also sail higher angles in light winds without the sail collapsing

To accomplish this with a big overlap genoa would require a very long pole
We've done a lot of miles with a poled out 120 % genoa and using a standard J length pole. It is perhaps fractionally slower than it would be with a longer pole, but likely not a big difference. We routinely carry it up to ~120 deg AWA with the full sail, and higher with a couple of rolls in the sail and the pole well forward. Reaching like this on our boat provides a nicely balanced helm and decent boat speeds... and without much need for deck work in times of shifting winds.

I don't think the idea of changing headsails at sea just to get a flatter poled out sail will get much traction from short handed cruising couples!

In short, for the OP: yep, you can use your spinnaker pole to pole out your genoa. It may not be absolutely optimum, but it is a very common and workable solution to the problem. And BTW, the collapsible poles have a very bad track record amongst long term cruisers due to their habit of collapsing or folding up under heavy loads.

Jim
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Old 24-05-2020, 17:33   #10
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

I agree, a spinnaker pole will work just fine. The only time you need to furl the sail real flat is really light air and of course you need to furl it in stronger winds. If you keep the pole end pulled down it helps to flatten the sail. Put thousands of trouble free miles on rigs like this. Watch for chafing on the sheet where it goes through the pole end.
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Old 24-05-2020, 17:33   #11
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

Sure enough. Worked well in the 1960s when conditions were too extreme, or the crew was experiencing motion sickness.
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Old 24-05-2020, 18:23   #12
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

In addition to what Jim wrote, above, I'd like to say that the collapsable whisker poles tend to collapse when you don't want them to. So, the spinnaker pole (for me) is definitely the right way to go. Less surprises.

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Old 24-05-2020, 18:31   #13
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

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Originally Posted by SVHarmonie View Post
I am not understanding why people think that the biggest jib that can be poled out is a 110... we sail downwind with TWO headsails, each are about 135%, almost 1500 sq feet of sail. Easy to rig, easy to shorten or furl, just plain easy,--even for two old crows--on a big boat.

We have done it for days and days when the wind cooperates. A safe, easy, quiet, dry, comfortable point of sail. For us, our VMG with the wind is faster DDW than it is reaching off at 150deg for any true wind speed greater than 8 knots or so.

https://fetchinketch.net/2016/06/26/...d-sailing-rig/

If your downwind poles are that hard to set up, you either don't know how, or they are not set up right (or both!)
As a ketch you probably have a small foretriangle. My cutter rig has half the sail area in the fore triangle
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Old 24-05-2020, 18:52   #14
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
We've done a lot of miles with a poled out 120 % genoa and using a standard J length pole. It is perhaps fractionally slower than it would be with a longer pole, but likely not a big difference. We routinely carry it up to ~120 deg AWA with the full sail, and higher with a couple of rolls in the sail and the pole well forward. Reaching like this on our boat provides a nicely balanced helm and decent boat speeds... and without much need for deck work in times of shifting winds.

I don't think the idea of changing headsails at sea just to get a flatter poled out sail will get much traction from short handed cruising couples!

In short, for the OP: yep, you can use your spinnaker pole to pole out your genoa. It may not be absolutely optimum, but it is a very common and workable solution to the problem. And BTW, the collapsible poles have a very bad track record amongst long term cruisers due to their habit of collapsing or folding up under heavy loads.

Jim
The high cut non overlap sail is very versatile, reefs well , reaches well, motorsails in light wind lumpy seas without chafe and stays up for the whole passage

When more power is needed the code zero is deployed from its roller ... these code sails are faster than a Genoa at close teaching wind angles in light air

The code zero is also perfectly happy flying to leeward of a poled headsail

When Broad reaching This two headsail combination is fast and easy to use

If you are planning a 500 mile beat in light winds your Genoa will be needed
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Old 24-05-2020, 19:08   #15
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Re: Use Spinnaker Pole on Genoa

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When more power is needed the code zero is deployed from its roller ... these code sails are faster than a Genoa at close teaching wind angles in light air
Umm, Slug, this does require that one has a code Z on board, and lots of us don't. I don't, and I strongly suspect that the OP does not either. Having one might change my ideas, but I'm not inclined to spend the >10,000 bucks it would take to find out.

So, for the time being I'll just continue to use my 120, poled out when required, and not buy another sail for passages and worry about when to change up or down. I gave up sail changing at sea (or at anchor for that matter) when I was around 60... a long time ago.

To reiterate, I've not found this practice to have all the downsides that you claim, and see no need to change. My advice to t he OP reflects this opinion.

Jim
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