Upper and lower shrouds on one chain plate. How to?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I've seem racing boats like the J/30 having both upper and lower shrouds connected to a single chain plate whereas many offshore boats have a chain plate for each shroud.

Three on ether side. Like my boat a Bristol 27 and also like the Contessa 32 pictured

One each for the two lowers and one for the uppers.

Yes. There are a lot of them out there. I think the issue here is that in your picture they each have their own spot on the chain plate right? So each can be tightened individually. Without reaching across the whole pin on mine, you would have something like a seesaw. So each one would have the same setting basically. And that doesn’t work. That’s what the Riggers were having some trouble with.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Chotu

You’ve only been selling for 22 years? Lol. Then enjoy the settee.


So that’s it. You’re a lone man sitting on a boat bored looking to fight people online. Now I understand. And you knew I would respond. Well here I am. Bring it.

It’s somewhat hilarious that you weren’t smart enough to be able to figure this out. While at the same time criticizing me and everyone else here who did figure it out. That’s kind of funny.

Do you know who you are criticizing on here for being non experts?

Aside from Rslifkin who is a virtual encyclopedia, there is a professional rigger who posted in here as well. And you are saying that they are not smart enough to come up with the answer? That what they say is not quality information? Well, they knew more than the old man in the rigging shop. But at the same time their opinion isn’t good enough for you? They lack intelligence? I beg to differ. Some of the smartest people in voting are on this form. You’re just not one of them.

You're right. Best of luck to you.

[5BTM]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I've seem racing boats like the J/30 having both upper and lower shrouds connected to a single chain plate whereas many offshore boats have a chain plate for each shroud.

Three on ether side. Like my boat a Bristol 27 and also like the Contessa 32 pictured

One each for the two lowers and one for the uppers.

My CS27 has the same setup as the J30, except mine has a baby stay.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

My CS27 has the same setup as the J30, except mine has a baby stay.

Yeah at the dock today I noticed about 5 Hunters with single chain plates and a couple C&C's.

Lots of the C&C's have the baby stay also like the C&C 29 and C&C 32.

As far as settings, all mine are at about 450 lbs except forward lowers which are at about 550 lbs. for a bit of prebend

This from my racing days and probably not needed on this boat

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yeah at the dock today I noticed about 5 Hunters with single chain plates and a couple C&C's.

Lots of the C&C's have the baby stay also like the C&C 29 and C&C 32.

As far as settings, all mine are at about 450 lbs except forward lowers which are at about 550 lbs. for a bit of prebend

This from my racing days and probably not needed on this boat

Excellent!

I’m doing rake and prebend too.

My friend with the sistership got me some great pics of HIS INVENTION that solved this problem. I was always pretty impressed with this guy’s ability to come up with solutions to the tricky stuff building boats but wow. These are great.

Sent the pics off to the rigger tonight and he’s having the metal shop start on them first thing tomorrow.

Mast should go vertical first week of January. They are closed from Christmas to New Years.

[neilpride]

Follow your rigger advice, mast is taller now, top and bottom angle of the uppers and lowers have changed in relation to the chainplates.

If it is a serious rigging workshop, they would have to guarantee the job for you if you follow the rigger advice, otherwise you are in your own.
Cheers.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Follow your rigger advice, mast is taller now, top and bottom angle of the uppers and lowers have changed in relation to the chainplates.

If it is a serious rigging workshop, they would have to guarantee the job for you if you follow the rigger advice, otherwise you are in your own.
Cheers.

If I'm not mistaken, the mast is now the designed height for the boat, so the chainplates and forces are all the same. Chotu just took a used mast that was too short for the design and lengthened it so it goes all the way up now.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Benz

If I'm not mistaken, the mast is now the designed height for the boat, so the chainplates and forces are all the same. Chotu just took a used mast that was too short for the design and lengthened it so it goes all the way up now.

Im not sure, the dimension could be the same , but shrouds tangs and spreaders ?

I mean , a lower shroud tang positioned less than + - 30 cm`s compared to the original position can change everything.

I'm not sure if that could be the problem or that the riggers don't trust the whole invention.

If we knew where the mast comes from, boat, characteristics, the same boat model?

I am confident that Chotu has followed the original rig, what worries me is that a rigger will ask for another chainplate.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Im not sure, the dimension could be the same , but shrouds tangs and spreaders ?

I mean , a lower shroud tang less than 30 cm`s compared to the original position can change everything.

I'm not sure if that could be the problem or that the riggers don't trust the whole invention.

I am confident that Chotu has followed the original rig, what worries me is that a rigger will ask for another chainplate.

Being a rigger myself, I'd put more confidence in the designer.

[5BTM]

Originally Posted by Benz

Being a rigger myself, I'd put more confidence in the designer.

Thumbing through my copy of "Skeene's Elements of Yacht Design" the chapter Spars and Rigging specifies every attachment point, every bolt, all accompanied by detailed technical drawings.

It appears that Chotu's rig is being designed, to put it politely, in an ad-hoc manner.

[s/v Jedi]

Sundeer 64 rigged like a catamaran: one chainplate for the lower, intermediate and capshroud.

(Zoom in to see… hope the forum leaves enough resolution because the file went from 8.6MByte to 400KByte…)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Sundeer 64 rigged like a catamaran: one chainplate for the lower, intermediate and capshroud.

(Zoom in to see… hope the forum leaves enough resolution because the file went from 8.6MByte to 400KByte…)

Well, it didn’t… another try using a cropped image

The important thing to watch for is that each attachment has it’s own toggle so that it can align properly.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

Thumbing through my copy of "Skeene's Elements of Yacht Design" the chapter Spars and Rigging specifies every attachment point, every bolt, all accompanied by detailed technical drawings.

It appears that Chotu's rig is being designed, to put it politely, in an ad-hoc manner.

Skene's is quite an ancient book now, originally published in 1904... Metallurgy, technology and rigging design has progressed a LOT in 114 years! I would now view his book as a basic's book. and not particularly relevant to multihull rig design. The forces on a multihull rig are quite different from a monohull.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

Thumbing through my copy of "Skeene's Elements of Yacht Design" the chapter Spars and Rigging specifies every attachment point, every bolt, all accompanied by detailed technical drawings.

It appears that Chotu's rig is being designed, to put it politely, in an ad-hoc manner.

You are correct.

My rig is a used rig. I bought the entire rig. Soup to nuts. Everything. Including sails and winches and every little piece of the rigging. I bought that off of a boat with the same righting moment and size. A prominent multihull naval architect double checked all my calculations and measurements.

Then I bought my crossbeam from a Chris white Atlantic 55. It was a little too big so I had to trim the ends off a little bit and get it welded up.

Then…. The used rig was originally stepped on top of a deck house. So it was cut short. It was a little stubby thing on the bottom. The gooseneck was just inches from the base of the mast. On my boat design, it steps directly on the forward crossbeam. Not up on a deck house.

So piece was added to the bottom to make up for the height of the deck house that was missing from the used mast.

By doing this, it changed the lengths of the shrouds and forestay.

That’s why I’m at a rigger. Otherwise I could have just put the rig up myself. Without doing anything. It was a complete rig, ready to go.

I also need odds and ends like a traveler, because it was determined on here that the Traveler that came with it was too short. It was something like 8 feet long. And apparently on a multihull it should span the entire deck house. It did not.. And I need a lot of help with the running rigging. And how to organize that on my boat. How to push down the dagger boards, route control lines.. Stuff like that. That’s where I need the most help from the rigger.

Not too many of us start with a completely blank canvas. You all mostly just bought boats that were already built. So you didn’t have to go through this step of trying to figure out how to do all of the running rigging. Where things go on the deck and whatnot.

It is for that reason that I am at a rigor. also to extend the shrouds and forestay. And of course also the foil on the furler.

But I have told the story 1000 times on here and still, some people are not able absorb it. I don’t know why. Not sure why people can’t seem to understand how a lot of this stuff works. I guess a lot of this just goes over their heads because they are used to not learning how things work and not doing things. As you can all probably tell, I am quite sick of the know nothing no it alls on here at this point. The people who actually know have posted great stuff. But the know nothing know it alls don’t even understand how this stuff works and they are posting their fears, inadequacies and general lack of comprehension with a “can’t do attitude.”

If it wasn’t for a small minority of people on here who really know their stuff, I wouldn’t even be on this forum. But that small group does make it worthwhile. Makes it worth putting up with the know nothing know it alls.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well, it didn’t… another try using a cropped image

The important thing to watch for is that each attachment has it’s own toggle so that it can align properly.

Well , no idea the beam in the sunder, looks like a rocket upwind, inboard chainplates is out of the game.