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Old 05-05-2018, 06:09   #196
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Beautiful!!

Concerning your snubber system: Last summer I pulled a sheet lead block through the deck . Without hardly slowing down (we briefly furled the jib), I snapped a dyneema strop onto a cleat, rereeved the sheet through the low friction eye, and kept on sailing. That took probably three minutes, and it worked absolutely beautifully, and I sailed another 1000 trouble free miles with this arrangement. I actually felt better about using the strop than a block, because you don't worry about damaging it with the very high loads from my carbon jib. If you do damage it, just toss it and make another. A block mounted through the deck is an entirely different story . . . .

These strops and low friction eyes are absolutely brilliant for uses like your snubber lead. How did we ever live without them? I'm finding it difficult to remember . . .
I wonder how we lived without HMPE fibre at all . Our boat is currently decked out with a couple of dozen HMPE soft shackles, a few loops, two Bullseye soft shackles, lifelines, headsail halyards, and as of ten minutes ago the front portion of the snubber that will pass over the bow roller (made in the cockpit while the boat skimmed over the flat IJsselmeer in sunny conditions ).

Regarding the use of low friction rings on jib sheets, did you find the dyneema melted around the ring? Or was the sail adjusted little so there was not much friction?

I trialled Bullseye soft shackles and LF rings on our yankee the year before last (not the correct use of LF rings, as the angle of the line turning through was way too acute and the friction too high with adjustment), but it gave the Bullseye a good workout under high load.

Interestingly, although the dyneema started to melt around the top of the ring, the weave itself looked completely unaffected. I am just thrilled how it is performing .

SWL
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:41   #197
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Interestingly, although the dyneema started to melt around the top of the ring, the weave itself looked completely unaffected. I am just thrilled how it is performing .

SWL
Slight aside, few winters ago in the storm ridden SW England I made a few short strops from 5mm Marlow D12MAX SK99 dyneema to see how they would fare having a very tough life round the fairleads as part of the springs and bow stern lines in a river marina berth. One resting on the edge of a piece of stainless angle. Quite exceptional!! Just a little chafe after the huge loads in the countless winter storms. One was tech12 which did melt a little bit, the D12 just had a little fuzzy chafe, incredible stuff!!
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:11   #198
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Slight aside, few winters ago in the storm ridden SW England I made a few short strops from 5mm Marlow D12MAX SK99 dyneema to see how they would fare having a very tough life round the fairleads as part of the springs and bow stern lines in a river marina berth. One resting on the edge of a piece of stainless angle. Quite exceptional!! Just a little chafe after the huge loads in the countless winter storms. One was tech12 which did melt a little bit, the D12 just had a little fuzzy chafe, incredible stuff!!
I debated about making some dyneema loops to go over our bollards to prevent the mooring lines rubbing on the top of the toerail (we have no fairleads except at the stern). I think loops would function well there and would free up room around the bollards for other use, but we tie up so rarely that I decided it was not worth the cost and effort and extra storage required.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:41   #199
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I wonder how we lived without HMPE fibre at all [emoji3]. Our boat is currently decked out with a couple of dozen HMPE soft shackles, a few loops, two Bullseye soft shackles, lifelines, headsail halyards, and as of ten minutes ago the front portion of the snubber that will pass over the bow roller (made in the cockpit while the boat skimmed over the flat IJsselmeer in sunny conditions [emoji2]).

Regarding the use of low friction rings on jib sheets, did you find the dyneema melted around the ring? Or was the sail adjusted little so there was not much friction?

I trialled Bullseye soft shackles and LF rings on our yankee the year before last (not the correct use of LF rings, as the angle of the line turning through was way too acute and the friction too high with adjustment), but it gave the Bullseye a good workout under high load.

Interestingly, although the dyneema started to melt around the top of the ring, the weave itself looked completely unaffected. I am just thrilled how it is performing [emoji2].

SWL
No, no melting. With the twings fully down (sailing off the wind), the angle is somewhat uncomfortably acute (about 120 degrees) but has served without complaint for thousands of miles.

My sheets are double braid racing dyneema, with polyester cover. Holding up well.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:56   #200
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I debated about making some dyneema loops to go over our bollards to prevent the mooring lines rubbing on the top of the toerail (we have no fairleads except at the stern). I think loops would function well there and would free up room around the bollards for other use, but we tie up so rarely that I decided it was not worth the cost and effort and extra storage required.
I rarely tie up either, though made up some short dyneema with eye each end which goes round the cleat /samson post then ties back into nylon after the fairlead / toe rail. Saves a little on space and quieter as there's no stretch so no movement of any lines on the boat. I got a load of d12 free just used once so there's dyneema everywhere onboard
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:49   #201
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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I got a load of d12 free just used once so there's dyneema everywhere onboard
Oh, that must have felt like winning Tattslotto .

What else have you used it for? I imagine there must be dozens of uses I have not thought of.

Many of our recent additions have been simple and overkill given the strength of Acera/dyneema, but oh so convenient .
eg: I have just made up an easy attachment system for our anchor ball, but found that the snap shackles rattled on the aluminium attachment points, so I used some scraps of 3mm dyneema and tied non removable small loops secured with diamond knots on the aluminium. The snap shackles now silently clip onto these.

Each batch of soft shackles I make seems to be recruited into service before I have a chance to blink.

SWL
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Old 15-05-2018, 05:58   #202
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post

Does a Brummel splice weaken the dyneema by concentrating force at a point where it passes through itself at the eye? Would a tuck and bury splice be stronger, for say our Antal halyard tensioners?
Yes, a perfect Brummel reduces strength by 5-10%, a less than perfect one more than that.

Pretty much no-one in applications where strength and safety and reliability are critical uses brummels. The best practice is, for smallish diameter rope a bury and lock stitch, and for biggish a tuck splice (still with lock stitching - although there is arguably no chance of a tuck slipping, but the lock stitching is considered just an extra 'safety factor'). And even a just decently done lock stitch does not reduce the strength at all (not measurably).

But in many/most yachting applications the rope is sized for stretch and not for strength, so you have 'extra' strength, so if you prefer the brummel for aesthetic reasons it is just fine in those sorts of applications.

There is pretty much no strength increase from a 48x to a 72x bury. The reason people recommend burys longer than 48x is for a form of 'safety factor' (especially in cycling loads). But in applications where really big really expensive rope is used, the shorter burys are used (or as I mention above more commonly a tuck splice is then used).
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Old 16-05-2019, 13:57   #203
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

Thanks again Seaworthy Lass for starting this thread and providing us clear and concise splicing instructions for these low friction ring strops.

Here's my first proper attempt, and I'm pleased to say it turned out pretty swell. This one's for a boom vang fitting, and rather than drill more holes in the boom for a bail, I decided to try a double cow-hitched strop instead.
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Old 16-05-2019, 14:22   #204
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by thereefgeek View Post
Thanks again Seaworthy Lass for starting this thread and providing us clear and concise splicing instructions for these low friction ring strops.

Here's my first proper attempt, and I'm pleased to say it turned out pretty swell. This one's for a boom vang fitting, and rather than drill more holes in the boom for a bail, I decided to try a double cow-hitched strop instead.
Hi Thereefgeek

Something does not look quite right unfortunately. The buried tail and the portion it is buried in should both go around the LF ring the same way, not in opposite directions (that creates a throat).

I have attached photos, which should make the explanation clearer. In the next post I will show the weave again.

I would take your LF ring out and check what happened. You may be able to correct it without undoing the buried portions. Luckily dyneema is dead easy to undo and resplice.

SWL
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Old 16-05-2019, 14:25   #205
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

This is the weave:
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Old 16-05-2019, 14:33   #206
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

This may help.
The “throat” that captures the ring is artificial:
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Old 17-05-2019, 16:49   #207
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

Hah! Yes, your eye is keen. This morning I realized my mistake, and after a couple of frustrating attempts, I managed to get the weave around the Tylaska ring corrected.

That's the great thing about Dyneema; if you mess up the splice you can always pull it apart and try again.
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Old 17-05-2019, 22:58   #208
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Hah! Yes, your eye is keen. This morning I realized my mistake, and after a couple of frustrating attempts, I managed to get the weave around the Tylaska ring corrected.

That's the great thing about Dyneema; if you mess up the splice you can always pull it apart and try again.

I must admit that if has been a few months between Bullseye projects, I need to reach for my directions, usually after frustratingly trying to recall the weave .
It is extremely simple, but the sequence needs to be just right.

And yes, I love the fact that dyneema can be re-spliced easily, even after hard use.

SWL
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Old 18-05-2019, 00:39   #209
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
. . . Regarding the use of low friction rings on jib sheets, did you find the dyneema melted around the ring? Or was the sail adjusted little so there was not much friction?. . .

I haven't had this problem. There is friction, and sometime I wonder whether this doesn't need a block rather than a LFR, but it works ok. I'm a bit of a sail trim freak, so the sail is adjusted constantly. But there's no friction without load, and once the sail is under load there are not miles of sheet running through it, sufficient to heat it up like that.


I'm using the jumbo Antal rings, two or three sizes larger than would be necessary for the 14mm sheets (double braid Marlowe racing dyneema). That's because the purchase system required a turn of the control line through the ring, but I think it helps with friction as well. If your LFR's are sized just so for your sheets, they may be too small. Or we could use blocks there.



I wonder if it would make sense to use bare single braid Dyneema (or Acera) for the sheets, and just hook on double braid tails where the sheet is handled on winches. Slicker and lesser diameter, would dramatically improve running through blocks and LFR's. What do you think? In my case I could just strip the cover off the first 10 meters or so.




I modified my outhaul last summer to give it a bare single braid Acera leader. I stripped a meter or two of cover from the double braid racing dyneema outhaul, and did an end to end splice with a piece of Acera, which I then cow-hitched on to the lug on the boom.


I did this because the Selden boom is designed to have the outhaul go through an eye in the lug and then get a stopper knot to retain it; this doesn't work well with ropes with non-structural covers like Dyneema double braid. This junction had gotten damaged and I had to cut off part of the outhaul which was anyway a bit too short.



This works very nice, with notably better running of the rope through the clew block. The system bears immense forces -- loose-footed carbon mainsail which can be trimmed almost totally flat, and is trimmed that way sometimes.



Only problem is the place where I sewed the cover back on, which looks ugly -- my sewing and whipping is so horrible , no matter how hard I try . I need some lessons.
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Old 18-05-2019, 00:45   #210
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Re: Unveiling Bullseye Strops for low friction rings

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
This is the weave:
Doesnt look a bit like me.. hmph!
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