Unique Twin Jib Rig

[Bloodhound]

Seems all the twizzle rig references are to two jibs stitched together and run through a common foil on a roller reefer. Is it possible (or advisable) to use two hanked-on jibs in this setup or am I missing something important?

[forsailbyowner]

I have two forestays run to eventually fly two jibs. This thread has been very interesting for me. I was glad for the extra forestay when I had a turnbuckle fail on a hard upwind sail last year. Sounded like a gunshot and jib was flogging way overhead but rig remained intact. Gotta love redundancy.

[CarlF]

Bloodhound,

I use two furlers (a Solent rig). The furlers make it easy to douse the sails if the wnd comes up but I see no reason that hanked-on sails couldn't work. You'd have to raise and lower them both on the same side of the boat and then jibe one over.

Carl

[Bloodhound]

I only have one forestay (plus stays'l stay) so am interested in hanking two jibs onto the single forestay. I doubt that sewing sails together in this case would make any sense or indeed any difference. But would like confirmation.

[Bloodhound]

Carl,

Saw your post after I'd already put up my last one. Seems to me both jibs have to be raised and doused at the same time anyway, and one has to be jibed out regardless of hanked sails or roller reefing. I use roller furling (a wire type of furler) so both would need to be either doused or furled at the same time in any case. Thanks for confirming that hanked sails is not a barrier to twizzle rigging.

Ralph

[CarlF]

With a furler, you set by pulling the jibs out with separate poles while sailing downwind. No jibe occurs. You should be fine with the hanks and wire furler.

I usually furl the mainsail when using the twizzle to keep clear air in both jibs. This seems to further damp rolling with no speed penalty. Of course, this would depend on your jib size.

Set up lots of lines to steady the twizzle joint between the two poles. It really tries to move around. Up-haul, down-haul, line to keep it from pushing aft and hitting the mast, etc.

Carl

[donradcliffe]

Last time we crossed the Atlantic to the Caribbean, we used two headsails pulled up on one furler, with a pole on the 'weather' sail. With the mainsail down and no danger of gybing, we could keep the stern square to the swell and really minimize the roll. It was also an easy and fast job to reduce and increase sail during squally periods.

[smacksman]

Originally Posted by CarlF

... Set up lots of lines to steady the twizzle joint between the two poles. It really tries to move around. ....

Carl

We found that the ability of the twizzle universal joint 'moving around' athwartships was in fact the foundation of the design. It seemed to help dampen the rolling motion.

As she rolled the universal joint moved across and slightly lifted one jib and then did the same on the opposite roll. The combined effect was to stop the roll after four or five oscillations. Much like moving crew weight in a dinghy to stop a roll.

If you restrict the travel of the joint you might just as well clip the poles to the mast.

We found that at a certain speed in a certain sea state the roll damping didn't work and we would go 15 rolls or more non stop. For us it was 4.9 knots in about 10 knots of wind.

Try as we might (and one has a lot of time on one's hands to experiment! haha) we couldn't adjust the poles/sheets to crack it. Only a change in one of the major ingredients would get us out of this harmonic state - wind strength; sea state; course; sail area.

Also with reference to the universal joint 'moving around', the pole ends are continuously rotating axially and radially and as I said above, the only joint that worked for us was a simple rope crucifix. The expensive stainless fabrication made after reading up on previous reports on the twizzle rig was too inflexible and broke the pole end fittings.

Often simple is best.

[settingsun]

I am eager to give this a try but am confused about the uphaul and downhaul attachment points on the boat. I have a radar mounted about 2/3 up the mast and a fractional rig. If I use the spinnaker halyard as my uphaul, won't it hit the radar? Also, where is a good attachment point for the downhaul, somewhere on the bowroller? Does it have to be directly on the centerline of the boat, or can it be slightly off to one side?

[smacksman]

@settingsun Sorry if I did not make it clear - it was the spinniker pole uphaul we used not the halyard. The loads are not great so even a rope or webbing strop round the hounds with a block on it would do.

With the universal joint downhaul - that needs to be taken down to the bows and then run aft to the mast so that you can adjust universal uphaul and downhaul at the same time when setting or striking the twizzle rig poles. The problem with leading aft to the mast is that the anchor windlass and forehatch are usually in the way. Therefore, we had a 2 foot strop added to the downhaul block to raise the block and therefore the fall above the obstructions to a cleat on the mast about 3 foot off the deck.

In your case you could have a strop going from port and starboard toe rails/stanchion base/etc with the downhaul block on it. This would center the block and raise it at the same time. If it had to be off center a bit I don't think it would make a lot of difference but the further forward the block the better.

The only downside to the downhaul lead aft high off the deck was having to step over it when walking on the foredeck. Not a major problem as we only had to get over the rope at the change of watch when we walked round checking the rigging, sails and rope and picking up baby flying fish for the frying pan.

[S&S]

smacksman-
Regarding the outhauls, you're using those to just pull the clew to the pole end? Are they then fixed or is there any adjustment for trim?

[settingsun]

smacksman -
Thanks for the clarification. I am not familiar with the term "strop" but found it in the dictionary as being a leather strap. It sounds like you are saying I can run a line between the bases of the port and starboard stanchions on the bow pulpit and then attach the downhaul line to a block there and then run it back to the cockpit. Should the line be leather or leather-encased to prevent chafing, or have I not understood your use of the word "strop" correctly?

Also, do you have any more hints on making the crucifix? Can it be done just with knots and without whipping (we can tie knots but have never done any whipping)?

Lastly, we are thinking of doing this by duplicating our existing 110% jib. Do you think we will be woefully underpowered, or is it close enough to the 130% you recommend?

Thank you

[smacksman]

@s&s The outhauls are to carry the outboard pole ends out to the clew of the sail and are made off to a cleat on the inboard end of the pole and so are normally fixed as you say. This is to overcome the problem that the clews of the rolled up twizzle jibs are well above head height (depending on the size of boat) and trying to clip the end of the pole into the bowline of the sheet on a plunging foredeck in mid ocean is well nigh impossible and dangerous. With an outhaul you can sit by the mast in comfort, using both hands, and run the pole ends out to the clews. Also, if you had the luxury of the poles being longer than required you could ease the outhaul and let the clew set inboard from the pole end for a better sail shape.

I don't know if is just me, but the bows of a boat changing sails in the ocean is not the place to linger. haha

@settingsun
My apologies again - I should have said a rope strop (or just a short length of rope) secured to the toe rail or whatever. We actually used a short length of chain. The downhaul block would be a swivel block ideally shackled to another block running on the rope strop for minimum chafe. However, a forged D shackle, with the D round the rope, would do.
Could you attach the downhaul block to your windlass maybe or on another rope strop from windlass to stem fitting? Difficult to advise without seeing your foredeck

Ref. the rope crucifix. So long as you end up with four eyes the construction is not critical. There is a knot called the jury rig knot (which could go on the end of a spar to take shrouds to hold it up) which is a bit of overkill for this job but it would do.

Whipping rope ends, splicing three strand rope, serving and other rope work is very satisfying and a good way to pass the time on watch.

Size of jibs? Well if they are on a furling gear then the bigger the better. Often, the length of pole you can easily stow on board is the deciding factor due to the width and curvature of your side decks.
If you are heading for the Trades then they blow on average 15 knots so maybe try your boat out locally in that sort of breeze with a jib poled out and another set flying and sheeted to the end of your main boom with the main stowed. It will give you an idea before spending a lot of money.

If you are ketch or yawl rigged then a mizzen stays'l pulls well on a broad reach with the twizzle set. We set it when we could in daylight but stowed it for the night watch and peace of mind.

[settingsun]

Smacksman - I am still trying to visualize this setup. At the universal joint, do the poles cross each other, one sitting above the other, or do the two ends meet? Do you have any issues of chafe on the inboard ends of the poles? Also, for 18' poles, what would be a reasonable diameter of the pole?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bloodhound

I only have one forestay (plus stays'l stay) so am interested in hanking two jibs onto the single forestay. I doubt that sewing sails together in this case would make any sense or indeed any difference. But would like confirmation.

Most roller furling foils have two luff tape slots. I don't think there is any necessity to sew them together if you have that kind of foil. I am planning to implement this kind of rig by simply buying a new yankee, jib, identical to the old one. I will use the new jib for ordinary sailing, and just hoist the old one in the second slot for a twizzle. The roller furler will roll up both jibs at the same time. I am looking forward to trying this out.