Trisail track (or not)

[Matt Johnson]

We had the Bainbridge equivalent to the OWS system on our last boat - trying to correct all the issues Noelex mentioned - and it was maybe a 10% improvement over just the standard slick plastic slides. Sail drop was improved, but reefing under load and raising the sail was just as difficult. Hopefully the Selden version works better.

Matt

[psk125]

Other threads on trisails have suggested rigging a wire between two eyes on the mast, and hanking the trisail luff to that. Easy to do and gets the trisail away from the mainsail track while still allowing it to be attached and ready to use any time.

[Hermia II]

The answer may be easy. Try lubricating your mast slot with silicone spray. It makes wonders!

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

We had the Bainbridge equivalent to the OWS system on our last boat - trying to correct all the issues Noelex mentioned - and it was maybe a 10% improvement over just the standard slick plastic slides. Sail drop was improved, but reefing under load and raising the sail was just as difficult. Hopefully the Selden version works better.

Matt

Fingers crossed.....will let you know. I would be happy with 30%.

[George DuBose]

What I have read is that the trysail should be bagged but attached to its track to simplify hoisting.

Skylark doesn't have a trysail track and the mainsail of a P36-1 is small to begin with and I believe the 2nd reef would serve well.

However, always looking for an improvement my question is...

How does one install an external track for a trysail that goes up 4-5 meters over the deck on a keel-stepped mast. Just using self-tapping screws or even screws threaded into the mast doesn't seem like a very strong attachment method. I don't see the possibility of putting nuts on bolts 6-7 meters up inside the mast. My arms aren't that long...

So how does on securely fasten a trysail track to an aluminum mast???

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

What I have read is that the trysail should be bagged but attached to its track to simplify hoisting.

Skylark doesn't have a trysail track and the mainsail of a P36-1 is small to begin with and I believe the 2nd reef would serve well.

However, always looking for an improvement my question is...

How does one install an external track for a trysail that goes up 4-5 meters over the deck on a keel-stepped mast. Just using self-tapping screws or even screws threaded into the mast doesn't seem like a very strong attachment method. I don't see the possibility of putting nuts on bolts 6-7 meters up inside the mast. My arms aren't that long...

So how does on securely fasten a trysail track to an aluminum mast???

Lots of masts have been built with external sail tracks being held on with pop rivets. I think that is completely acceptable for your trys'l.

Jim

[Sherpa17]

Trisail tracks are usually riveted or use machine screws into tapped holes . It's best to avoid introducing the tip of a self tapping screw into the mast cavity.

A second track is there in case of damage to the mainsail track.

Dodge Morgan carried a shotgun on his solo round the world trip to shred any sails that got stuck. Everything on American Promise was on furlers, including the main. It's trisail track was tapped and the trisail was pretty much left rigged most of the time with its own external halyard.

[Hermia II]

Best, if you like to have a trysail track is to use countersunk blind rivet nuts from aluminium or stainless. Next best is pop-rivet. I have myself pop-riveted a trysail track on a Swan 42 which we sailed across the Atlantic, actually using it in the Bay of Biscay. You put it there to fly the Trysail from it, not to use it if something happens to the main track. Reason being that you do not want to have a loose mainsail on deck or anywhere else when all hell is loose. You tie it to the boom, ready for hoisting after the blow, and sail merrily with the trysail sheeted in the spinnaker block on your stern quarter, with a bit if jib set.

[Joli]

We don't have a trisail track or trisail. We use a third reef which is quite deep. With the third reef and a staysail we can sail upwind in about 50 knots fairly well, 8~9 knots but the waves dictate the speed more then the sail configuration. The waves slow us down to 6~7 knots because some have no back and falling off them at higher speeds is tough on the boat and the crew.

If we had to sail in winds higher then 50 we would probably roll up the staysail and sail with only the main. We've not sailed the boat in more then 50 sustained so I cannot comment on how well it would work.

[jmh2002]

We found our 3rd Reef (also quite deep, also on a large fully battened cruising sail) to still be too much sail area in 50kn or more - a 4th Reef size was really what was necessary.

But the boat also had an existing Trysail Track and the Trysail itself too. I kind of looked at them as different options, because both sails are quite different.

* The 3rd and 4th Reef (in combination with the Staysail or Storm Jib depending on the conditions) for when you really want to keep sailing, efficiently so, perhaps to beat upwind or make speed and distance if necessary.

NB: we didn't keep the 3rd & 4th Reefing lines lead for coastal sailing or island hopping in stable weather, this helped in lighter air.

Positively, Reefing has the benefit of retaining all the normal sail controls, boom, mainsheet, vang, etc, etc for better sail shape and control.

Negatively, it means that the mainsail and reefing points may need to be more heavily constructed than otherwise necessary, and this adds weight and stiffness in general, weight aloft too, and adversely affects the light wind performance of the sail as well.

* The Trysail for situations where you are really just trying to survive and it's less important to make headway on a fixed course, etc. The Trysail is even more heavily built than the 4th Reef, really totally bullet proof, and helps to keep the boat stable, making way, and retaining steerage, but doesn't really have the same 'sailing' ability.

Positively, the Trysail doesn't require the existing boom, the mainsheet, the vang, etc, or even the main mast track, which may be helpful in case of a gear failure or breakage (or to prevent one occuring to your normal sailing equipment).

Negatively, the Trysail is very stiff and heavy, with an extremely hollow leech, and has limited controls for sail shape, affecting performance when you may need it most. These negative points for the Trysail can also be positives too of course, depending on the situation.

So as I said, I kind of looked at them as different options, for different needs, in different situations.

It was really nice sometimes to have the option of going down to the 4th Reef and the Staysail or Storm Jib (both on an inner forestay). This was a good combination that brought the centre of effort towards the mast and removed weather helm (the autopilot was very happy with this combo too), but still allowed for all sail controls and full sailing ability and performance.

But when offshore and a weather bomb was unavoidable it was also great to be able to drop down to the Trysail and Storm Jib (or just the Trysail) instead and let the weather roll past without putting unnecessary strain or wear on the normal sailing equipment, keeping that for better conditions later in the passage.

So options, it's really all about having different options I think.

[Hoodsail]

After watching the skip Novak video, choosing and using storm sails I’m going with a fourth reef in my main along with my storm staysail (approx 90 sq ft) for heavy weather. Reasons being many times I am single-handed so reefing the main is the safer manuever for me versus hoisting a try sail (I do not have a dedicated track) and I can do this by just adding the 4th reef point. It’s been pointed out that these are not equivalents, being the trysail is loose-footed and can be flown w/o a boom. But I cant envision a situation where my boom would not be usable unless I pitchpoled or were completely inverted at which point I would suggest sail configuration is the least of my issues.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

...I’m going with a fourth reef in my main along with my storm staysail (approx 90 sq ft) for heavy weather. Reasons being many times I am single-handed so reefing the main is the safer manuever for me versus hoisting a try sail (I do not have a dedicated track)...

That seems like logical thinking and a good plan for your circumstances