To Single Line Reef or Not?

[Cheechako]

not. been there done that. With a cat, going forward should not be an issue either.

[off-the-grid]

Originally Posted by nautical62

I purchased on boat that had boom roller reefing for the main which has to be the worst main sail reefing system in existence. I converted it to single line reefing which has to be the second worst system. There was so much friction, I had to get up on deck to get things snug and even then it was difficult to really get the clew down where it should be.

I liked reefing from the cockpit so I went to double line and it worked quite well. I added a second set of clutches. On a cat, I might be more inclined to walk up to the mast.

HAHAHA!

I friend of mine has the same boat, but his came with a boom furler, and he hates it.

[off-the-grid]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sold, 2 lines it is. I only have 2 reef points anyway, so we're only talking about 2 additional lines. Also the extra blocks and line clutches, still won't cost as much as the extra blocks I'd have to add to reduce the friction with single lines.

And I'd prefer to not worry about chafe and bad sail shape, which seems to be a recurring complaint of the single line systems.

Pblias - 7x the line size for all the blocks? That one I wasn't aware of. It reall needs to be that much bigger? WOW, those are going to be some BIG blocks!

[Cheechako]

7X......well thats only about a 2.5" diameter block. But I agree with the friction, single line is nothing but trouble. I guess if you went all 2.5 to 3" block and used Harken roller ball blocks and added blocks at the sail cringles... maybe.... but if you are just plain reluctant to leave the cockpit then just reeve both reefs (tack and clew) back.... a small boat doesnt work too bad with the single line. Think about the friction (and cost!): A winch, a stopper, through the dodger, a 90deg turn, thru the fwd cringle, a 90 deg turn, along the boom, a 90 deg turn, thru the aft cringle to a dead eye. Then do this for each reef...

[Pblais]

PBlais - 7x the line size for all the blocks? That one I wasn't aware of. It really needs to be that much bigger? WOW, those are going to be some BIG blocks!

Yes. You also need to be mindful of working loads. Schaefer and Ronstan sell 60 mm blocks with 1000 lb SWL loads as well as ones for 2000 lbs. Harken does not do this. It means you can go lightweight on blocks and be fine - for a while. If you oversize you lines you should also oversize the blocks.

I just replaced a bunch of 60 mm Schaefer's blocks that had UV damage and found the Lewmar 72's were pretty much the most cost effective for the application in a 2000 lb block. I was just replacing running rigging not really changing much. By the time you add up the blocks, lines, and the new clutches for 7 lines run back it's not small money. The winches were is perfect shape as were the boom sheaves. You need to think total package. I have a few lines that didn't get run back and a swapped a spinnaker halyard run back for a jib halyard that wasn't. I have no winches on the mast.

[off-the-grid]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

7X......well thats only about a 2.5" diameter block. But I agree with the friction, single line is nothing but trouble. I guess if you went all 2.5 to 3" block and used Harken roller ball blocks and added blocks at the sail cringles... maybe.... but if you are just plain reluctant to leave the cockpit then just reeve both reefs (tack and clew) back.... a small boat doesnt work too bad with the single line. Think about the friction (and cost!): A winch, a stopper, through the dodger, a 90deg turn, thru the fwd cringle, a 90 deg turn, along the boom, a 90 deg turn, thru the aft cringle to a dead eye. Then do this for each reef...

Well, yeah...except I'm a moron and was thinking the block needed to be really oversized as in the the width of the block, not the diameter. Now those would have been some HUGE blocks. DUH! Let the beatings begin.

[Pblais]

Well, yeah...except I'm a moron and was thinking the block needed to be really oversized as in the the width of the block, not the diameter.

The two go together. The radius is resistance and the thickness is strength. Materials used enter into it as well and cost also determines that too. Blocks overloaded offer higher resistance and that means drag as you crank on them. Overloaded blocks can shear the block material or cause the cheeks to fail. The balance of resistance to strength, to weight, and to cost all balance out into the products you see for sale. for the most part the safe working load leads you to the correct choice for both resistance and strength as well as long term durability. Sailors now expect blocks to last a good long while. That was not historically true.

Check out prices for 80 mm snatch blocks. These are items that could pick up two cars and then some. Boat loads and dynamics effect what you require. Smaller boats get by with the lot less than high performance large race boats. When the loads go 5 figures you know it's expensive.

[Rhosyn Mor]

I under stand how people like to work from the cockpit, BUT. is there not an issue with not working at the main?...... I have always thought that you need to practice working on your foredeck/ mast... because sometime you WILL need to go and work up there, and if you are out of practice, it becomes dangerous, So for me I ahve seperatelines for each reef, and have to go to the mast, this givesme the confidence that when I have to go forward in heavy weather, I know where to put my feet, my hands etc...

[Cheechako]

Yea, I have raced boats starting 30 years ago and tried most all the reefing setups on my cruising boats. Lines led aft just make too much of a mess for me in the cockpit. My last attempt was my Passport 47. Everything came aft. High quality dual action stoppers, 3 winches under the dodger, extra winches in the cockpit, everything from the traveler , main, main furling, reefing etc etc aft. What a mess! It was like racing an americas cup yacht! Stopper off, stopper on, clear the winch, oops unloaded the wrong stopper etc etc. When the mast was rebuilt it all went away. two simple winches on the mast is a lovely thing. I like going forward anyway. Geez, if you're that afraid of the water what are you doing out on the ocean?

[off-the-grid]

I'm a diver, so I don't exactly think I'm afraid.

BUT...

Single handing, even just a few miles off shore, and weather comes in I sure as hell don't want to fall overboard. Not going up front is one great way to reduce the chances of that happening.

And the system I'm talking about is WAY simpler than what you're describing. Just 6 lines coming back, and adding one additional winch.