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Old 24-01-2023, 07:37   #91
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Re: The sail control table!

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
With the better rope clutches that very well may be the case. I've just never seen them used that way (and I'm not sure I've ever tried it myself). Everyone I know just uses them as an on/off switch.

Even if you don't need a winch to release a line, I'd still want 2 of them on the table to reduce having to take lines on and off the winch as frequently. In the spinnaker case, you could run each spinnaker guy to a winch, so jibing would be nice and easy with no line swapping, just release one a bit and pull the other in.
I've never seen or heard of a clutch which can be used to gradually release a heavily loaded line.

Normally you need a winch for this, so you need to have a free winch, in the right place, anytime you're trimming a line.

One is not enough, Chotu! I have 10 winches on my boat, four of them electric, and I'm always wishing for a couple more.

Reversible electric winches would be the bee's knees for really heavily loaded lines.
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Old 24-01-2023, 08:09   #92
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Re: The sail control table!

I might just give up here. In a good way.

I’m in contact with someone who has created these sail control tables at a major performance catamaran company.
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Old 24-01-2023, 08:22   #93
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Re: The sail control table!

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Yes, but there are a lot simpler (stronger and cheaper) ways of doing it when running multiple lines than individual deck blocks. Picture that, but stacked with whatever number of sheaves and cheeks needed running on the same axle.

Keep in mind that this multi block setup implies the lines are running from the mast inline. Others would need different angles since these need to be fed straight.

Another option is to do the same as a mast base deck plate. Mount this on a strong shelf below deck and use conventional blocks to lead the lines aft. Think of any boats mast base, but now drop that below deck however deep you want it. There would just be holes in the deck where the lines need to be fed through.

I feel like the holes are the tricky part.

Trying to picture something like one of the sheets coming in from way Outboard toward the mast.

That has to go through the deck. And it’s coming at a strange angle. I was picturing those low friction rings. Maybe it would be able to go through those or the item I just put in the picture above.

Once down inside the beam, yes. A bunch of sheaves. There are a lot of different things that could be done.

But where I have been kind of struggling is picturing it going into the deck.
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Old 24-01-2023, 08:29   #94
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Re: The sail control table!

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I feel like the holes are the tricky part.

Trying to picture something like one of the sheets coming in from way Outboard toward the mast.

That has to go through the deck. And it’s coming at a strange angle. I was picturing those low friction rings. Maybe it would be able to go through those or the item I just put in the picture above.

Once down inside the beam, yes. A bunch of sheaves. There are a lot of different things that could be done.

But where I have been kind of struggling is picturing it going into the deck.

You don't necessarily need sheaves right at the deck penetration, they can be below the deck holes. You'd need to align the lines to all be going in straight through their holes, then into a sheave inside the deck or beam that turns them aft. Then another to turn them up for the other set of holes, and any deck organizers, etc. to allow them to go where they need without impacting alignment from their holes.


Of course, the sheaves can be right in the holes as well, whatever is easier to actually install is the answer.
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Old 24-01-2023, 08:38   #95
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Re: The sail control table!

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
You don't necessarily need sheaves right at the deck penetration, they can be below the deck holes. You'd need to align the lines to all be going in straight through their holes, then into a sheave inside the deck or beam that turns them aft. Then another to turn them up for the other set of holes, and any deck organizers, etc. to allow them to go where they need without impacting alignment from their holes.


Of course, the sheaves can be right in the holes as well, whatever is easier to actually install is the answer.
Oh yeah. I didn’t even think of it that way. You could put one of these over the hole. Then as the line comes in it goes around this and straight down to the sheave inside the boat.


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Old 24-01-2023, 09:00   #96
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Re: The sail control table!

Worth taking a look at how Windelo solves these problems.

This video shows exactly how the main manoeuvres happen:

The stubby thing between the left and centre winches is an Antal turning sheave.
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Old 24-01-2023, 12:14   #97
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Re: The sail control table!

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Worth taking a look at how Windelo solves these problems.

This video shows exactly how the main manoeuvres happen:

The stubby thing between the left and centre winches is an Antal turning sheave.
Thatís a good video. Thank you.

That really gets across what Iím trying to do and shows the hardware too.
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Old 24-01-2023, 12:28   #98
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Re: The sail control table!

Pretty sure I’m hiring this out now. This is what I’ve been saving for. Good rigging. So I am in contact with someone absolutely exceptional that I can’t name just yet. His work is in some of the earlier posts in this thread. That’s how exceptional he is.
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Old 24-01-2023, 15:12   #99
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Re: The sail control table!

Exiting developments. I am hiring the person who did these on the Gunboats to do my rigging. So it’ll be basically the same.

VERY excited to be working with a guy with that level of experience. Nice guy too.

We start next week!


Jim Cate was a tough b&st:rd with his post.

But I’ll be damned if he wasn’t right. Lol

(That’s within the rules, right? I’m complimenting Jim)


I’m off to the Carolinas (slowly)
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Old 24-01-2023, 16:46   #100
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Re: The sail control table!

Congratulations. What a huge relief getting a pro like that to make sure it's all 100%
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Old 24-01-2023, 17:10   #101
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Re: The sail control table!

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Exiting developments. I am hiring the person who did these on the Gunboats to do my rigging. So itíll be basically the same.

VERY excited to be working with a guy with that level of experience. Nice guy too.

We start next week!


Jim Cate was a tough b&st:rd with his post.

But Iíll be damned if he wasnít right. Lol

(Thatís within the rules, right? Iím complimenting Jim)


Iím off to the Carolinas (slowly)

Sounds like a good plan! Between it being custom to your boat (and therefore having some input for your preferences) and having an experienced pro do it, you should end up with a solid setup.
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Old 24-01-2023, 17:53   #102
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Re: The sail control table!

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Congratulations. What a huge relief getting a pro like that to make sure it's all 100%
Thank you! And thank you very much for your post earlier. The one that started the momentum about it going through the deck and then to the sail control table.

That post is actually what led to me finding this guy and reaching out to him and making arrangements to have him do the rigging.
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Old 24-01-2023, 17:54   #103
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Re: The sail control table!

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
Sounds like a good plan! Between it being custom to your boat (and therefore having some input for your preferences) and having an experienced pro do it, you should end up with a solid setup.
Exactly. I have been saving up for this part. So, I am ready. Lol but I think also it won’t come out to be too much more expensive because he knows what he’s doing already. He doesn’t have to reinvent everything. He’ll just get to it.

It will definitely be a solid set up. I could not have gotten a better person for this particular type of sail control arrangement.
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Old 24-01-2023, 18:57   #104
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Re: The sail control table!

Hey this is great! After all your troubles getting good help in Florida, I hope this guy lives up to your expectations in the Carolinas!
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Old 24-01-2023, 19:13   #105
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Re: The sail control table!

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Hey this is great! After all your troubles getting good help in Florida, I hope this guy lives up to your expectations in the Carolinas!
Seriously. Itís been kind of brutal down here. Lol a lot of people on the forum told me to just pack it up and go. And you guys were probably right.

I was hoping to be able to sail it. Not motor the intracoastal. Yuck. So tired of doing that.

But getting to the Carolinas in the Northeast and stuff I will be able to probably get some quality work done on the things I canít do and the nice climate up there will help me be able to do more work in general. Keeps my mood up a little bit. There arenít heat problems right now, but when there are that really slows me down.
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