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GILow · 26-11-2018, 03:58

So, in all my excitement at getting rid of the highfield levers on my running backstays, I forgot I had another of the monsters on the staysail stay.

Thinking of the best way to get rid of it and I realised that thanks to the brains trust on CF, I’ll probably have some 4:1 blocks spare from the running backstays.

I am considering using those but attaching them would be a little tricky as they’re too long to go at the base of the stay (the staysail would sit too high).

Wondered about a block at the chain plate for the stay and some kind of horizontal setup with the 4:1 block?

Or is there some other bit of rigging that would do the job?

Staysail is hank on now but the plan is to make it a furler setup in the not too distant future. Would REALLY like to maintain the option of taking the staysail away from the foredeck and back to the mast when not in use.

I accept that I may be dreaming.

ilenart · 26-11-2018, 06:28

This is the setup on the UFO 34 Not Negotiable, which has a pretty impressive racing records, further details here. Not sure if they ran a sail from the stay or just used for additional support of the mast.

-bliss- · 26-11-2018, 07:24

There is lots of dedicated hardware for this on the market. I’m reluctant to post a link, as I’m not here to recommend a certain brand. A google search will give plenty of alternatives.They are pretty much the same units as some backstay tensioner. (My baby stay tensioner is the exact same unit as a friend’s backstay tensioner) My units to tension both baby stay and cutter stay are winch handle operated. Have seen them with a ratchet as well. My boat neighbor’s low budget solution was to weld two ss handles to a turnbuckle in order to tighten the stay quickly. Fork terminals in both ends, and a very beefy pelican hook connected to the stay in order to remove it quickly. Seems to work just fine.
Good luck!
-kjetil-

SailRedemption · 26-11-2018, 10:34

I don't think you will have the option of bringing it back to the mast if you want a furler, unless it's the kind that don't have a foil luff. We made our stay permanent with a turnbuckle, but we have a Arco Hutton furler with foil luff. I believe Colligo has a continuous line furler that would work great for your boat. Ours was a bit too big for that furler at the time.

GILow · 26-11-2018, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilenart

This is the setup on the UFO 34 Not Negotiable, which has a pretty impressive racing records, further details here. Not sure if they ran a sail from the stay or just used for additional support of the mast.

Yes, that's kind of what I was thinking... I think...

GILow · 26-11-2018, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailRedemption

I don't think you will have the option of bringing it back to the mast if you want a furler, unless it's the kind that don't have a foil luff. We made our stay permanent with a turnbuckle, but we have a Arco Hutton furler with foil luff. I believe Colligo has a continuous line furler that would work great for your boat. Ours was a bit too big for that furler at the time.

Yes, I may be dreaming, but last I checked, if I got lucky, it would be JUST short enough. Or maybe just across to the base of the forward baby-stay or some forward part of the toe rail, just to clear the foredeck. I'll have to see. Either way, I'll want to be able to take the tension off it without too much trouble too, because of the desire to leave the running backstays disconnected whenever possible.

GILow · 26-11-2018, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by -bliss-

My boat neighbor’s low budget solution was to weld two ss handles to a turnbuckle in order to tighten the stay quickly. Fork terminals in both ends, and a very beefy pelican hook connected to the stay in order to remove it quickly. Seems to work just fine.
Good luck!
-kjetil-

I LIKE budget friendly solutions!

-bliss- · 26-11-2018, 14:12

My suggested tensioner- solution was based on your current setup with a removable stay with hank on sail.
Adding a furler to the equation seems quite inpractical, as the drum would have to be located way to high to give the proper sail area. The stay would have to be a tad shorter than the distance down to deck, in order to secure it tightly. You don´t want this gear flogging around on deck.
It´s doable, but you will need a long tensioner from deck, and it would need to be reinforced (custom made?) to handle the torsion forces involved while furling. Anyway, unless you´re planning to use the staysail only in heavy condition, you´ll end up with a sail that´s too small.
I´ve contemplated the same thing, as I´m planning to add a furler to my cutter stay. After some research, i´ve concluded that having proper sail area and the convenience of a furler is way more important than the ability to remove the cutter. I´ll have to accept that I won´t be able to tack with the genoa unless furling half the sail. I´ll go for a low cut furling jib on the cutter for sailing upwind + heavy weather, and using the genoa upwind only when on the same tack for a long time+ for reaching and running in conditions too heavy for the gennaker.
The pictured boat has a convenient solution, but it won´t work with a furler, and it probably would have been to weak for a boat your size. You need the stay to be tight to avoid sag while sailing upwind.
-kjetil-

**Jim Cate** · 26-11-2018, 14:29

Looking at the UFO pic, I don't believe that the stay is intended for a sail at all... way too close to the mast. I reckon that it is a baby stay intended to avoid mast inversion and perhaps to induce bend for sail shape control.

Matt, another approach (not cheap) is that used on Aurielle, an Adams 15 belonging to friends from Hobart. They use a continuous line furler and a staysail with a torque rope sewn in and a 2:1 halyard. The sail is cut very flat and they find it useful in strong winds... and it is easy to get out of the way. I was dubious, but they are keen sailors and very experienced, and I can but believe that it works as claimed.

They just now left Pittwater heading south, or I'd go take some photos for you. I can give you their contact details if you would like to discuss it with them directly. They will be in Hobart around Christmas, and you could have a look then.

Cheers,

Jim

Snowpetrel · 26-11-2018, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by GILow

Yes, I may be dreaming, but last I checked, if I got lucky, it would be JUST short enough. Or maybe just across to the base of the forward baby-stay or some forward part of the toe rail, just to clear the foredeck. I'll have to see. Either way, I'll want to be able to take the tension off it without too much trouble too, because of the desire to leave the running backstays disconnected whenever possible.

You should be able to safely leave the staysail stay tensioned when you release the runners. It will just slacken slightly and add a touch more prebend. It's going the other way that gets dangerous, releasing the staysail stay when the runners are tensioned risks inverting the rig.

I'd be looking at some of the solent stay solutions, prehaps using (low)friction rings. But in your case the highfeild lever seems like a pretty good solution for now.

Snowpetrel · 26-11-2018, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Looking at the UFO pic, I don't believe that the stay is intended for a sail at all... way too close to the mast. I reckon that it is a baby stay intended to avoid mast inversion and perhaps to induce bend for sail shape control.

+1

Jim, didn't you originally have a solent on a highfeild lever with a furler so you could bring it back to the mast? Seems like a very good solution, if you can stop it accidentally releasing..

GILow · 26-11-2018, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

+1

Jim, didn't you originally have a solent on a highfeild lever with a furler so you could bring it back to the mast? Seems like a very good solution, if you can stop it accidentally releasing..

Jim's experience on the East Coast of Oz is one of the reasons I'd like to get rid of the highfield. He did enough damage with his, which sounds like it was half the weight of the monster DIY thing on my boat.

GILow · 26-11-2018, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by -bliss-

My suggested tensioner- solution was based on your current setup with a removable stay with hank on sail.
Adding a furler to the equation seems quite inpractical, as the drum would have to be located way to high to give the proper sail area. The stay would have to be a tad shorter than the distance down to deck, in order to secure it tightly. You don´t want this gear flogging around on deck.
It´s doable, but you will need a long tensioner from deck, and it would need to be reinforced (custom made?) to handle the torsion forces involved while furling. Anyway, unless you´re planning to use the staysail only in heavy condition, you´ll end up with a sail that´s too small.
I´ve contemplated the same thing, as I´m planning to add a furler to my cutter stay. After some research, i´ve concluded that having proper sail area and the convenience of a furler is way more important than the ability to remove the cutter. I´ll have to accept that I won´t be able to tack with the genoa unless furling half the sail. I´ll go for a low cut furling jib on the cutter for sailing upwind + heavy weather, and using the genoa upwind only when on the same tack for a long time+ for reaching and running in conditions too heavy for the gennaker.
The pictured boat has a convenient solution, but it won´t work with a furler, and it probably would have been to weak for a boat your size. You need the stay to be tight to avoid sag while sailing upwind.
-kjetil-

Good points, well made. Yes, I moved the goal posts with the furler idea. Thinking about it now... not sure if I am more keen for a furling staysail or an easily removeable stay....

Would love both, of course, but hard to work out how.

Playing around with sail configurations on the boat, I've been unable to find a better sail configuration than the current yankee/staysail combo. The high cut reacher has been relegated to the sail locker.

Talking to people who have tried a genoa on my boat, they all said it didn't work well, weather helm, too much heeling, not enough drive. My experience of the reacher does tend to support this perception, and it's in very good condition so it's not a case of a bagged out sail.

Hmmm.... I've got a fair bit of 316 stainless left over after making the windvane... I wonder what I can dream up...

GILow · 26-11-2018, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

You should be able to safely leave the staysail stay tensioned when you release the runners. It will just slacken slightly and add a touch more prebend. It's going the other way that gets dangerous, releasing the staysail stay when the runners are tensioned risks inverting the rig.

I'd be looking at some of the solent stay solutions, prehaps using (low)friction rings. But in your case the highfeild lever seems like a pretty good solution for now.

Well, if you are not worried about the tension remaining on the mast without the runners, then I'll relax.

Starting to dream up something a little LIKE a highfield, but one that remains attached to the deck. Jim's highfield got loose one day (if I remember correctly) and did a lot of damage.

Something fixed to the deck feels safer to me. And I am pretty sure I can design something to take the torque of a furler, should I be able to go that way.