Cruisers Forum

  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-11-2008, 17:48   #31
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,844
I have only used Sta-Lok and cut the wire with standard bolt cutters, ran the angle grinder very briefly over the cut off end and open the strands with the leatherman.
All easy peasy .
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 22:18   #32
Registered User
maxingout's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cruising
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,723
There are issues with using old wire if you are using the Sta-loks, and that is the fact that some insurance companies won't insure wire that is older than ten years. My insurance company gave me an absolute upper limit on wire at 14 years if I wanted my rig covered in my insurance policy.

Documenting the type of wire and its source is also important. When I was in Australia, one of my friends could not get his mast and rig insured until he obtained a letter from his rigger in New Zealand stating the age of his wire and the fact that it was 316 stainless steel.

So my advice would be to check with your insurance company.

Find out if they will insure older wire that has been on your yacht for a long time.

Find out if they require documentation on the wire grade and source.
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 00:49   #33
Registered User
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: We're technically refugees from our home in Yemen now living in Lebenon
Boat: 1978 CT48
Posts: 5,966
Images: 139
I had all new Sta-lok fittings installed with my new rig at the end of 2003 prior to departing Vancouver.
When the boat arrived in Leb. 11 months later every one of the turn buckles was uniformly speckled with dots from where the plating had failed.
However, the little orange Sta-lok stick-on stickers were still perfect.
Could have been a bad batch?
For the price I was definitely disappointed.
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 05:57   #34
Registered User
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 725
Alternative to Stalok's and wire

I would encourage anyone considering rigging soon to check out Dynex Dux. There is a thread on this form that covers some of what is going on with it. I am re-rigging my 34' Searunner Trimaran with it just now. Most rigging folks if you talk to them do not know about Dynex Dux. They all know Dynex and Spectra and will tell you it is no good for standing rigging (and they are right)...But Dux is way differnt. Then if you mention synthetics most will relate to PBO, which is outta site cost wise.
We have converted every single piece of steel wire on our fleet of offshore trawlers in the Bearing Sea. It has taken us 6 or so year to finally realize how amazing this stuff is. We can buy any wire we want in the world for these boats. Dynex Dux will replace any wire application with lighter weight, longer life, and easier handling. the only exception is on wire we had to keep that goes too close the a hot main engine exaust....:-)
Basically by going to 12 strand Dynex Dux I am eliminating any worries about fatigue, corrosion, and loosing 1/6 the weight of SS rigging. This is really pretty new to the sailing world. It blows a lot of minds to think something may actually be available like this. Below is a copy and paste from the "synthetic rigging thread"

Mike Strong stuff
There is good discussions at Brion Toss forum "spar talk" on synthetics. Also Brian Duff is using it on the east coast.

Here is a good link to see the Brummel splice that we use on the Dux for rigging. (notice the expensive fid he uses...hahahah, and the blue masking tape....oh man...this stuff breaks a lot of the old school rules that it has to be expensive and hard to do and require special tools.....stuff...I love it)
Multi Marine :: The Art and Science of Sailing

I recently recieved an email on a 1 year old rig from Aust. I know they rigging new F-boats in Vietnam and a couple 50' cats in the same factory. I will update here as I learn Also I will post a couple shots of the rig pertaining the email here. Good going!....:-)

Hello John,

after a years sailing i have closely inspected my rig on the 42 ft sloop Landfall. In the year i have tightened the lowers once after restepping the mast and then re tightened by a full turn all shrouds and lowers a month ago, backstay is untouched.

On my yacht the shrouds run over the spreader tips, this area was unchanged from when i used wire, i only filed out the spreader grooves to ensure they were smooth

Rig inspection i had already carried out myself, but i then had the same done by a licensed rigger, but one who had no connection with the re rig, i particularly asked to check spreader ends/ dynex and terminations into the mast. We took all leathers off the spreaders.

There was no sign of chafe at any point, there is no sign of wear anywhere. I have over 2/3 adjust still left on all my turnbuckles and the rig is tight. My turnbuckles are standard marine Navtec open body.

We use calibarated dux for all shrouds, lowers, backstay, main halyard, topping lift, and in anti twist luffs on staysails and gennaker. Dynex is used in our steering cable set up.

The only wire left on the boat is the forestay under the furler simply because i cannot fit a thimble inside the furler drum, otherwise that would go as well

Please feel free to use this if you want, hope all is well, i wish this damn economic uncertainty was over


Attached Thumbnails
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 06:02   #35
Registered User
Jmolan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mexico/Alaska/Oregon
Boat: 34' Searunner Tri
Posts: 725
The link
Jmolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 11:02   #36
Registered User
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 523
Images: 22
Here is a interesting on Dynex & Dynex Dux: strongRope for Strong Rope | Australian distributor of Dynex, Nautilus, Hampidjan and Facnor Furling marine equipment.
"The best place to be, is here".
"The best time to be here, is now".
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2008, 21:27   #37
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
Dynex Dux is a brand name and there are a few products out there with the same properties. They are basically a dyneema (in this case normal Dynex) that has been cooked (heat treated) while under load. While this is great it can suffer flex fatigue if not used correctly but then so can some wire.

We have been using fibre on yachts down here for many years now and it has it's pros and it's cons.

Wire will take a lot more punishment without damage even though it is heavier, weaker (size for size), doesn't creep and a pile cheaper.

The one nasty downside of most of the 'newer' fibres is zero warning before failure. It can look perfectly fine and just go bang. Generally wire will show signs of age and possible imminent failure. An 80fter found that out only a few days ago... BANG... what the?... Opps mast fallen down. Fibre rigging let go in 25kts of breeze.

I'm using a similar product on my own boat but not for the real important shrouds as yet. Even though I work with these fibres each day I'm still not convinced it is cost effective, actually I know it's not. I could re-rig my entire boat about 4 times with wire as opposed to only once for the same bucks using a fibre substitute.

I'm sure we are getting close to having very viable fibre rigging but as yet all the little niggles and downsides do tend to mean it's more a race yacht thing as they replace their rigging a lot more often. Mind you they would also be using an un-covered smaller diameter than a cruiser would.

I don't think that you would be doing a bad thing going to fibre, assuming you want to pay the cost, but I'd say you would be close to being a guinea pig really.

And watch for the UV, the unseen killer.
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 00:58   #38
Registered User
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 523
Images: 22
Ouch, that expensive !

Well that put the synthetic rigging on the back burner until they start pumping it out of China.

Stainless with mechanical fittings on the bottom and swaged fittings on the top. Is that a sound plan ?
"The best place to be, is here".
"The best time to be here, is now".
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 11:42   #39
Eternal Member
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,507
Images: 123
& you would trust China to produce it properly? I must say you enjoy living on the edge......
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 21:39   #40
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
They are pumping it out now. We have been offered 3 lots from assorted manufacturers.

The funny yet spooky thing is all 3 have specifications that are identical to Samsons, not just close, identical. Not one match it's stated numbers when put to the test. Samson does.

Had a chat to a long term rigger mare of mine and he's of the opinion Sta-lok give the average cruiser more flexible options when in the out of the way places. He has done quite a few cruisers rigs and added a couple of spare fittings and a length of wire for the bilge 'just in case'. Good thinking I'd be thinking.
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 22:12   #41
Registered User
blahman's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Charlotte Harbor, FL
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 301
Images: 50
Originally Posted by Efraim View Post
He shouldn't say anything, since poured sockets were used on sailing vessels long before the more expensive stuff came out. Since they are commonly used in industrial applications their properties are well know and extensively documented for insurance purposes.

SEA's SSV Corwith Cramer lost two stays and three shrouds to lightning during a storm in '97. She had poured-socket style forks; when the rig was struck, it became so hot that the epoxy in the sockets melted. The large sea pulled the cables free from the softened terminals.

It's a testament to her brigantine rig that it all didn't go over the side. I think it was in a tropical storm.

I have Sta-Loks on my W32. Buy them from Sailing Services in Miami. Brooks (owner) supplies Sta-Loks to everyone in the US - He's the only distributor here. Everyone else is a reseller.

Aaron N.
"Only those who see the invisible can do the impossible."

W32 #482 Asia Marie

blahman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2008, 23:46   #42
Registered User
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 523
Images: 22
China - We are probably using all sorts of things that we think are made elsewhere but are in fact made under liscense or by the original western manufacturer in China and they just do not say where it is made. Noticed how many items do not say where they are made, but the same items used to say "Made in USA" or "Made in Australia", etc.

If it works and is to spec, then I am happy to live on the edge. In fact on that note, we used to use russian ice screws for climbing when most were using European or American. Those that could afford then, bagged us for using them, those that could not afford better still had a good time climbing and are still alive today.

That is one of life's realities when you do things above your income, you find the most economical way, you take some calculated risk and get out there and do it.

Bring on the Chinese rigging & ST deck winches !
"The best place to be, is here".
"The best time to be here, is now".
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2008, 00:00   #43
Registered User
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,878
I'll stick with wire and stay locks thank you..I like the looks of Norseman's better though.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2008, 01:22   #44
Senior Cruiser
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,759
Images: 241
Sailing Services (Miami)
80 NW 73 Street, Miami, FL 33150
Phone: 305-758-1074
Phone: 800-458-1074
Fax: 305.754.0257
Fax: 800-443-0422
Email: <Brooks Paul Jones, President>
(Brooks P. Jones cell phone: 305-632-0298)
Web: Sailing Services - Rigging, Lifelines, Winches, Furling Systems, Supplies, Ropes
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2008, 17:06   #45
Marine Service Provider
TabbyCat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: still cruising after 18 years
Boat: MaineCat Catamaran 41'
Posts: 538
Images: 5
Send a message via Skype™ to TabbyCat
Interesting discussion. We have Sta-loc on TabbyCat.

For what it's worth, most insurance companies start applying rigging exclusions when the rigging is 15 years or older, the idea being that it should have been replaced by then. So if you do replace your rigging, be sure to keep copies of your receipts. It might even be a good idea to provide those to your agent to have on file.
TabbyCat is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hi-Mod, Sta-Lok, or Norseman ? Orion Jim Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 29 14-06-2023 10:53
New Standing Rigging: Navtec or Blue Wave Swaged Turnbuckles ? Northeaster Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 10 07-03-2010 07:52
Gibb 28 STA Winch - Disassembly Help! captjcook Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 14 31-12-2009 02:16
Sta-Lock Fittings Flyer Monohull Sailboats 3 29-05-2007 06:34
Sta-Loc vs Swaged cable ends for off shore vessels delmarrey Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 18-11-2003 16:12

Advertise Here

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:27.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.