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07-12-2017, 06:53
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX
Boat: Whitby 42
Posts: 348
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Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Looking at a '80s vintage sail boat. There is a light coating, more like dust, on some of the rigging wires. No actual rust, almost just like dust. Does that indicate a serious problem with the rigging? The boat is in south FL.
thanks,
Bob
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27-12-2017, 14:18
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX
Boat: Whitby 42
Posts: 348
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
never got a reply so I thought I would bump it.
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27-12-2017, 14:32
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,483
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Not necessarily. There have been some threads here on CF with that occurring on new rigging. If it is light and wipes off with minor polish, probably not necessarily an issue. How old is the wire? More suspect if at the swage fittings and heavy rust etc.
All rigs over ~15 years old are suspect.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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27-12-2017, 14:52
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,034
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
What will be your typical use of the boat? If it's going to be leisurely days sails during nice weather it's one thing. If you're planning to sail across Atlantic it something else.
I'd go by overall condition of the boat. If POs were not keeping her up then everything may be an issue, not just the rigging. If everything else is in tip top shape then may be this is not a big deal as well.
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27-12-2017, 14:54
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,034
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako
Not necessarily. There have been some threads here on CF with that occurring on new rigging. If it is light and wipes off with minor polish, probably not necessarily an issue. How old is the wire? More suspect if at the swage fittings and heavy rust etc.
All rigs over ~15 years old are suspect.
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And chainplates. Especially if they're encapsulated. I have never understood the designers/builders who do that to chainplates.
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28-12-2017, 06:05
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX
Boat: Whitby 42
Posts: 348
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Not been able to determine from the broker how old the rigging is. Uses Sta-Lok (SP?) fittings, so not original. Boat's been sitting unattended for two+ years, if nothing else, needs some serious cleaning.
No ocean crossing, across the Gulf of Mexico, Texas to Florida, East Coast to Maine. Replacing the rigging would be the major expense.
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28-12-2017, 08:03
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,961
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Because fittings and cable are manufactured and manipulated with machine tools that are not made of stainless steel themselves, it is not unusual to find micro-fine particles of common steel embedded in the surfaces of stainless that will develop a patina of rust. Even stainless itself-a combination of steel and chromium--will develop minor surface rust. Usually surface rust that cleans off readily with products such as Spotless Stainless is of no particular consequence. A good reference can be found at Standing Rigging Care.
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
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28-12-2017, 08:31
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Toronto - ON - Canada
Boat: Bayfield 36 Cutter
Posts: 53
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
If you can get the mast down "penetrating dye test" may give you a better idea if the rig needs (partial or whole) replacement.
Masthead connections, spreaders (you should also check the welding for cracks if welded) are crucial parts of inspection.
Luff tapes and roller furling also infamously hide the defects. If you have any, remove them for inspection.
Dye test kits are not expensive and you can DIY
MET-L-CHEK PENETRANT INSPECTION KITS - 16 OZ from Aircraft Spruce
I hope this helps.
Tafa
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28-12-2017, 08:39
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,483
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
I doubt penetrant inspection is an option on wire, the fluid will just fill the wire gaps and everything will glow. Fittings and solid pieces yes.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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28-12-2017, 08:48
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Toronto - ON - Canada
Boat: Bayfield 36 Cutter
Posts: 53
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
right.... I 've misread the original question.... My bad
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28-12-2017, 09:35
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine USA
Boat: Gulfstar 41' ketch
Posts: 203
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
If the entire rig has been done with Sta-Lok then replacement may not be all that expensive and the cost should be a factor in the purchase price.
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28-12-2017, 09:54
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX
Boat: Whitby 42
Posts: 348
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte
Because fittings and cable are manufactured and manipulated with machine tools that are not made of stainless steel themselves, it is not unusual to find micro-fine particles of common steel embedded in the surfaces of stainless that will develop a patina of rust. Even stainless itself-a combination of steel and chromium--will develop minor surface rust. Usually surface rust that cleans off readily with products such as Spotless Stainless is of no particular consequence. A good reference can be found at Standing Rigging Care.
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Thanks for the link. Unfortunately we are in TX and the boat is in FL. I guess if we get to make an offer I would include a rigger as part of the survey. The boat needs lots of work, all of which I can handle, but not replacing the rigging if it comes to that. That would be a big chunk of money.
Thanks for all the feedback.
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28-12-2017, 10:05
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#13
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֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Bob-
As a practical matter, if the boat will be insured, the insurer may require a rigging inspection or replacement if the age is unknown and the boat itself is that old. I'd strongly endorse a rigging inspection and escrow funds agreed to, to cover re-rigging or part of that, if necessary. Also consider that when you see a DIY rigging job with non-original parts (and that's nothing against Stalock and others) you have to ask "Who did this and was it done to spec?" because sometimes it means things were changed, or just not done to spec. Then you go and order new sails and find out, the boom was replaced too and the "to spec" sails don't fit.
Definitely a rigging inspection. Would reallly expect you have been or will be hands-on to the boat before the actual purchase, and at that time you should be able to run a white t-shirt or similar cloth up and down the rigging. Forget the "dust", but if you find ANY meathooks in the wire, anywhere? Some folks would say the whole rig need to be redone, because those are stress failures, and there will be more internally that you can't see. A full rigging inspection (dye test or magnaflux, etc.) needs to include the chainplates and all the stainless parts the rig goes into, because those do have sudden failures as they age as well.
Folks who have had a mast come down, universally say that it really ruined their day. Even if it was only near-coastal.
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28-12-2017, 10:10
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX
Boat: Whitby 42
Posts: 348
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
If we do get to a survey I will definitely be there.
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28-12-2017, 10:23
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Today here, tomorrow over there
Boat: Malö 40H
Posts: 345
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Re: Surface rust on rigging-a problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHorn
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Usually when brokers say that the age of the rigging is "unknown" you can pretty much bet it is damn old.. if it was any "recent" they'd be putting this on bright bold letters everywhere on their ad. People don't just "forget" to mention they just changed the rigging and forego using this as a selling tool ;-)
To be honest "not knowing" something like this would raise yellow flags in my head.. it means at least one of the owners in the chain of ownership was not paying attention.. speaks bad for how the boat has been taken care of during its life I would think. Or someone is lying (i.e. it is the original rig and they'd rather just say "dunno")
If you can factor in the cost of replacing the rig in your offer and make it work then fine.. if not.. walk away my friend.. walk away...
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