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01-09-2010, 21:44
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Roma Tropea soon in Carabiem
Boat: belize 43
Posts: 43
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Square-Rigging System for Sail Boat - Info, Please
I know there is a kit for sail boat for going down wind in the atlantic crossing for sail boat. I need info, enibody knows about it ??
Ciao
Gianni
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01-09-2010, 21:57
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines in the winters
Boat: It’s in French Polynesia now
Posts: 11,368
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I think what you need is a spinnaker or a kite.
KiteShip - Pleasure Marine
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Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
The measure of a man is how he navigates to a proper shore in the midst of a storm!
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02-09-2010, 02:54
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Roma Tropea soon in Carabiem
Boat: belize 43
Posts: 43
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Sorry i mean ONLY SQUARE SAIL, i have meet a sail boat 1 year ego, it was a normal sloop. Very easy solution for down wind.
Please replay if you have this info.
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02-09-2010, 04:00
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
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Suggest you have a search on here for "twizzle rig" and Swagmans posts, Very informative. Not sure if I was short handed I would want to fly that kite thing. The twizzle rig can easily be reefed too.
Pete
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02-09-2010, 06:39
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Eustis, FL
Boat: 1960 Chris Craft, 1957 Clyde, 1961 Atkins, 1986 Macgregor 65, plus three of my own design and build
Posts: 239
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No, there's isn't a kit for 100+ year out of date technology. The square sail isn't a reasonable option on a modern sailboat. It is on certain types of gaffers, but these boats would be much better off employing a different down wind strategy, such as twin headsails or other down wind specific considerations.
So, it depends a great deal on your yacht Filaviasail, as to what you can safely carry aloft. What are you looking to apply this to?
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02-09-2010, 07:48
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 65
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A system to carry square rig was designed by L Frances Herreshoff many years ago. The yard was hoisted aloft and could set a course and a raffee.
I sailed on one of his Marco Polos with this rig, it worked very well.
It is illustrated in his book "Sensible Cruising Designs"
Don
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02-09-2010, 08:22
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellingham WA
Boat: 17' faering Ironblood, building 34' schooner Javelin
Posts: 305
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I built a square sail fofr my gaff rigged schooner years ago, and as PAR pointed out, for a gaff rig it is an old, but good system. It looks like you have a large marconi rigged catamaran, filaviasail, and I would not want to try to put a square on that rig. Marconi masts are no designed for that kind of stress and chafe. One of the triangular down wind rigs would be better, I think.
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02-09-2010, 11:28
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicholasville, Kentucky
Boat: 15 foot Canoe
Posts: 14,191
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Marlinspike states it simply. There is a design and it was applied to a boat that was designed to use it.
I too have set a square sail on a Marco Polo which was a three masted marconi schooner. Not an easy task but doable.
kind regards,
__________________
John
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02-09-2010, 12:09
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,961
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In the late '80's a fellow by the name of Denny Moore and his wife, of Moorehaven, Florida, sailed around the world on an old Concordia yawl named "Prospector". He rigged the boat with a yard fitted with an underslung roller-furling assembly, similar to an in-boom furling system. He could hoist the yard, suspended at it's mid-point, up to his lower spreaders on a jack-stay and unfurl and brace his "square sail". He was even able to hoist a Raffee from that to his top-mast. While the rig looked cumbersome, it evidently worked well enough to drag him around the world. (Google "Gentmen Never Sail to Weather") I suspect one could do something similar with a furling boom if one wanted to endure the brain damage.
FWIW...
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"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
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02-09-2010, 18:11
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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We met a Canadian boat with normal rig plus a square sail on the fore mast. I think it worked very well for them.
barnie
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02-09-2010, 20:44
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicholasville, Kentucky
Boat: 15 foot Canoe
Posts: 14,191
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Weight aloft and chafe are two things to consider. If your spar were light alloy and you rigged it well for chafe then I guess you could make it work.
I don't know of any kit available.
regards,
__________________
John
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04-09-2010, 18:35
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Maybe the spar could be had in carbon? Lighter = less chafe?
b.
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04-09-2010, 19:39
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Columbia 41
Posts: 522
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I think the highest you could hoist the yard would be to the lower stays. That is, to the lower spreader since the stay tangs are there. The stays would transfer the load of the square sail down to hull through the chain plates. If the yard were raised higher it would produce an excentric load causing the mast to bow forward...until it failed. The main problem I see is bracing the yard. The spreaders extend to near the full beam of the boat. As the yard is braced it will fetch up against the upper stay as it passes the spreader. So, you would only be able to brace the yard one or two degrees aft. A cruising spinnaker is a more workable solution.
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04-09-2010, 19:57
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,884
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If the boat was something like a topsail schooner, then yes it could work, but usually entailed using a bare yard, which doubled as a spare boom or gaff, and topsail yard. The rig and vessel would normally be designed to accept the differing stresses. On the other hand, this is an antiquated sort of rig one does not see anymore except on vessels, or replicas there of, dating back a hundred years or more. With today's boats, rigs, and sails there is little reason to adopt a rig of that sort as genoas and spinnakers are more efficient, and indeed, modifying a modern sailing rig to that configuration might induce unacceptable stresses and greatly complicate handling.
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'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
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04-09-2010, 20:35
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Blue Hill, Maine
Boat: 32' Bob Baker/Joel White Cutter (One-off wood)
Posts: 159
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In Self-Steering without a Windvane by Lee Woas, he mentions that Tom Steele used a 20 foot yard squaresail on his 32' ketch Adios which had a 10' beam. Apparently, it worked for self-steering (like twins) but with some other advantages (easy to make, low cost, easy to reef, simple fittings, useful on other points of sail [minus self-steering]).
As a side note, there seems to be a strange myth circulating in the sailing world that technology that worked for thousands of years suddenly doesn't work. That said, it may or may not be appropriate for your rig. I think I may have some other data on it in my other self-steering book, but that's on the boat....
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