Splicing Dyneema

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think most people use knives.

However -- surgeons these days never use scalpels or other knives, whenever they can use scissors. I'm the same with cordage. I bet if you tried the awesome D-Splice dyneema shears, you might also be a convert to scissors.

I just can't see getting enough control with them in order to make fine, or precise cuts. And partial depth cuts are out too. Ditto on anything of thickness, non? How do you work on a 12mm or 16mm line with them, even just it's core? They're handy for small stuff, & I have a pair permanantly affixed to my rigging apron, but...

On Brion's splicing wands. A handy way to store them is to get some PVC pipe of the proper size, & glue a cap onto one end, & put a screw on cap onto the other. That way they won't get bent or maimed.

PS: Anyone have some good scissors sharpening tips, aside from using the bench grinder? I've got one small sharpener for them which has a built in pre-set angle, & you just stroke it down the blades. But without it or a grinder, I'm SOL. Ergo the query.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I don't use scissors much, I really prefer ceramic knives. Any set of ceramic knives will far out perform stainless blades. Metal doesn't handle the HDPE material well, it gets dulled very quickly. Ceramic however holds up far better, you just have to be careful not to chip the blades.

Another vote for ceramic knives. You don't need anything fancy. I keep the paring knife out of a set similar to this in my ditty bag.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fine...609688453.html

And like Stumble says - keep then away from anything that can chip the blades.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by tenchiki

https://briontoss.com/ and Soft Shackles are really good sources of information for splicing dyneema and relatives.

For soft shackles, you'll find it hard to beat Seaworthy Lass's instructions with photos right here.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-155591.html

also:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...le-155714.html

[Snore]

I splice all my double braid lines and even add backsplices to the ends.

You need some sharp scissors.


I buy cheapos and use them for 5-6 splices and then pitch them.

However, Dyneema is a bear to cut with scissors. I use a brand new razor in my utility knife for the dyneema and scissors for the jacket.

Google New England Ropes eye-splice for a great how-to video. Also Google double braid backsplice, for a video on how to finish the line smartly.



Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I just can't see getting enough control with them in order to make fine, or precise cuts. And partial depth cuts are out too. Ditto on anything of thickness, non? How do you work on a 12mm or 16mm line with them, even just it's core? They're handy for small stuff, & I have a pair permanantly affixed to my rigging apron, but...

Yes, you're right, partial depth cuts can't be done with scissors -- you definitely need a knife for that.

But I cut up to 16mm double braid with really sharp micro-serrated scissors and it works fabulously well. Maybe I'm just not as skillful with a knife as some other people, but I find it much easier to make a very fine, even cut with very sharp scissors, for example after you've whipped a rope end and need to shave off the excess just exactly so.

The other big advantage of scissors is you don't need a cutting board. I don't have a workbench on my present boat (that will be remedied with the next boat), and I don't have a workshop on land, so this is a bit of a PITA for me.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Lojanica

So I was going to make the 2 point bridle out of polypropylene which will act as a bridle and snubber.

It floats, is springy and should dampen the peak forces.

I like the idea of using the dux as a towline and also as backup rigging too in the event of failure. Your point about using the dux for shackles duly noted. I'll get some other line for making soft shackles I guess. Which would you recommend?

Thanks again for the input.

For soft shackles, just use Samson Amsteel, New England's HTS-78, or Marlow's D12. In fact, I'd use any of those for a towline over Dux, which is too stiff to handle easily when pulling in the dinghy and stowing the towline. There's a lot to be said for nice soft hand in a line.
Ben
Zartmancruising.com

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Lojanica

I purchased some 13mm Dyneema Dux

Was planning on using for rigging, shackles, and tow lines on the boat etc.

Half inch? Thems gonna be big shax!

Careful using that as a tow line, no give whatsoever, you'll be ripping off cleats....

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, you're right, partial depth cuts can't be done with scissors -- you definitely need a knife for that.

But I cut up to 16mm double braid with really sharp micro-serrated scissors and it works fabulously well. Maybe I'm just not as skillful with a knife as some other people, but I find it much easier to make a very fine, even cut with very sharp scissors, for example after you've whipped a rope end and need to shave off the excess just exactly so.

The other big advantage of scissors is you don't need a cutting board. I don't have a workbench on my present boat (that will be remedied with the next boat), and I don't have a workshop on land, so this is a bit of a PITA for me.

I've just got a small plastic kitchen cutting board (about A4 paper size) they I keep in a bag with all my other ropework bits and pieces. Provides a good cutting surface either on the deck on on my lap.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

I've just got a small plastic kitchen cutting board (about A4 paper size) they I keep in a bag with all my other ropework bits and pieces. Provides a good cutting surface either on the deck on on my lap.

I do too, but the sharp scissors allow me to do it without a table or lap. The advantage is especially great if doing this while underway.

None of these advantages will make much difference to a really skilful person with a really good knife and a workbench, but to someone like me lacking not only the knife-work skill but the time to play with knives enough to keep them really sharp, not to mention the workbench, the ultra sharp micro-serrated scissors are a Godsend.

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[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I do too, but the sharp scissors allow me to do it without a table or lap. The advantage is especially great if doing this while underway.

None of these advantages will make much difference to a really skilful person with a really good knife and a workbench, but to someone like me lacking not only the knife-work skill but the time to play with knives enough to keep them really sharp, not to mention the workbench, the ultra sharp micro-serrated scissors are a Godsend.

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In a pinch I will use whatever I have to hand. Scissors, a knife, razor blades, I once took apart a safety razor to responce a asym tack line... But I prefer a ceramic knife. I have good steel blades, but I don't like sharpening them enough to want to use them to cut dyneema, it just dulls them to fast. My understanding of it is that next to obsidian blades a good steel blade should be the sharpest blade possible. The downside is that by cut number two the steel has dulled while the ceramic keeps trucking along.

In my splicing kit I have a couple of ceramic knives, a pair of ceramic scissors, and a pair of stainless scissors... I always reach for my ceramic pocket knife though.

[UNCIVILIZED]

A good steel blade won't go dull on you fast. Which, I think, is why Brion Toss's crew was lusting after mine. And yes, it helps that I've had knives since age 4. But everyone should really know how to use & keep one in good condition. They're Mankind's oldest tool.

Look for a good carbon steel, or tool steel. Non-stainless, as with stainless you give up a lot of steel's better properties in a cutting edge, unless you buy a really high end stainless knife. Keep it regularly oiled, & after a bit the steel soaks up enough oil so that rust isn't an issue. And once you've put a good edge on it, it doesn't take much to keep it shaving sharp. Mine was good for a week of splicing, including in Brion's class without need of a touch up.

Another option I'm told, is a knife made from Stellite or it's sister alloys like Talonite. They're pricey, but essential the metal is like that in Cobalt bits. In that there are micro particles which comprise part of the alloy, which, coupled with the base metal, create what amounts to a micro serrated alloy that cuts like crazy & is tougher to dull.
The other catch besides the cost, is that compared to steel they're a bit more fragile.

Stumble, you're not joking about obsidian. They've long been regarded as the king/one of the kings when it comes to sharpness. Though most of them that you commonly see are pressure flaked, & thus the epitome of serrated knives. And they also define fragile.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED;2215981. . . [B

PS:[/B] Anyone have some good scissors sharpening tips, aside from using the bench grinder? I've got one small sharpener for them which has a built in pre-set angle, & you just stroke it down the blades. But without it or a grinder, I'm SOL. Ergo the query.

You can't sharpen the micro-serrated ones -- you just throw them away when they get dull.

That makes them unsuitable for professional use, I guess.

But if you're just using them on your own boat (vs doing it professionally, for lots of boats), they will last a few years -- maybe a few hundred splices.


Your posts have made me think that I need to give another go at having a really sharp rigging knife on board. I keep a Myerchin (handed down from my Father) on my person, and while that's a great all around utility knife, it's not a great blade and quite a lot of work to keep even reasonably sharp.


Maybe when I'm in Finland in a couple of days I'll try to acquire one of those Saami (Eskimo) Puuko knives made from Damascus (hand forged, laminated) steel. The riggers up there swear by them.

[Jman]

I think dux is maybe the worst choice for a tow line that you could find, other than say 1x19 wire. Very little stretch, no chafe chafe cover, very stiff, slippery in the hand, etc. Also it sinks, which is not ideal for a tow line.

Finally it is way to expensive for the job.


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