Sheeting angle for Solent staysail

[jls095]

Hi all –

I recently added a wire Solent stay to my sloop so that I could hank on a variety of sails, including a high-aspect staysail. The sail’s luff length is just a few feet shy of max luff length and the clew is just ahead of the forward lower shrouds. I will not be able to use the genoa / drifter track because it is too far back and too far outside (on the toe rail). I am planning to install a large Wichard folding padeye on each side of the cabin top with a dyneema lashing and a low friction ring to lead the sheets back to the forward-most genoa car.

What are guidelines for achieving the proper sheeting location? Being a tall sail, it’ll require a fair bit of leech tension to maintain shape. I also understand that there is likely not much of a benefit of putting the location further inboard as my boat (Gulfstar 37. 20,000 lbs, long fin keel, rudder on skeg) is unlikely to take advantage of it. This is one of those measure a million times, drill once kind of jobs, so appreciate the input!

At this point I’m not interested in a more dynamic 3D / floating sheeting system found on racing boats. Looking to keep this simple.

[model 10]

I put a furler on my Solent stay and had a sail re-cut to fit. It was supposed to fly inside the stays and I put a pad eye on the cabin for it. Problem was the boat would not move at all with that sheeting angle so I ended up sheeting outside the stays and used low friction rings etc and the regular sail track on the toe rail.

[HankOnthewater]

JLS095, what kind of boat are you sailing?
I have a 80-ish ketch that has a solent added. I use the same car on the genoa track as I use for the genoa, but generally have the car further forward for solent sail. BTW, both sheets fit through the wide sheave at the same time, so I never have to reroute the sheets.
Genoa track is on the gunnels of my boat, and car is adjustable over nearly 4 mts. Seems to work well.

I know that boats similar to mine have a staysail rigged (instead of solent), generally they have a pad-eye or a short track on the coachroof (that is then within the stays.

In your case, can you try several points with tempory locations, that is without drilling holes everywhere?

[barnakiel]

Set the leading eye flying, so that you can trim how high it sets.


I noticed with high wind small fore sail there is always a challenge to pull the leech tight enough, so avoid setting the attachment point (the padeye in your case) too far aft. This would sure be a mistake. A floating leading eye (a lf ring) will always float towards the stern and then quite a lot too. Beware.



If your rail is of the alloy holed design, you can get the point right by tying the ring with any piece of rope to the rail, then making the sail set 'right'. Only then drill any holes or add any new fittings.


A flying ring gives you so much play that you should have zero problem setting things right underway, as long as you have the padeye forward enough.


Cheers,
b.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by jls095

Hi all –

I recently added a wire Solent stay to my sloop so that I could hank on a variety of sails, including a high-aspect staysail. The sail’s luff length is just a few feet shy of max luff length and the clew is just ahead of the forward lower shrouds. I will not be able to use the genoa / drifter track because it is too far back and too far outside (on the toe rail). I am planning to install a large Wichard folding padeye on each side of the cabin top with a dyneema lashing and a low friction ring to lead the sheets back to the forward-most genoa car.

What are guidelines for achieving the proper sheeting location? Being a tall sail, it’ll require a fair bit of leech tension to maintain shape. I also understand that there is likely not much of a benefit of putting the location further inboard as my boat (Gulfstar 37. 20,000 lbs, long fin keel, rudder on skeg) is unlikely to take advantage of it. This is one of those measure a million times, drill once kind of jobs, so appreciate the input!

At this point I’m not interested in a more dynamic 3D / floating sheeting system found on racing boats. Looking to keep this simple.

I would tend to think along the following guidelines.
You want one fixed point that sits at the right distance/angle from the tack, i.e. 2 measurments.
1 - distance along central line of boat,
2 - distance from centre towards toerail atwarthship.
I would start with the second measurement, by taking the clew to a point on deck that sets an angle to the centerline that is 1/2 of the apparent median wind you want to operate the sail in.
For the first I would look at an imaginary line, that starts about middle of the luff, through the clew and ends on deck. This will set an acceptable and similar pull angle on luff and foot both.

[Cheechako]

The location changes based on point of sail. Do yourself a favor and just install a short track instead of a padeye.

[wcapital]

Not specific to this sail/question, but I have found a lightweight (5mm dyneema, I think) 8:1 barber-hauler, w/ pennant & snap shackles, to be extremely valuable for optimizing sheeting angles given fixed or limited range of track & padeye locations. I've used it effectively with every headsail on the boat - from a-spin to genoa to stay sail & storm jib.

In your case, this sail undoubtedly would benefit from the ability to move sheeting angle both forward/aft and inboard/outboard....which could probably be accomplished with the existing track outboard and one or two padeyes inboard. Alternatively, while less flexible, you could use a 2nd sheet from an outboard lead when reaching along with a fixed inboard lead at optimal location for close hauled angles.

[hlev00]

Can you check with the sailmaker? They will have good input.

I think one guideline is to draw a line from the clew to the midpoint of the luff. You only need the line to be 18" or so extending out from the clew. Then raise the sail and see how this line lines up with where your ring might be. As others have said you will want to have some adjustability to account for high wind conditions that will tend to distort from the ideal.

[Scaramanga F25]

Angle depends greatly on the type of keel and hull design. Call your sailmaker.

[jls095]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Set the leading eye flying, so that you can trim how high it sets.


I noticed with high wind small fore sail there is always a challenge to pull the leech tight enough, so avoid setting the attachment point (the padeye in your case) too far aft. This would sure be a mistake. A floating leading eye (a lf ring) will always float towards the stern and then quite a lot too. Beware.

b.

Great advice. This is exactly what I was thinking (set the pad eye further forward and then use the length of the lashing to the floating eye as the adjustment)