Seriously, why do people like in mast furling?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Only for the person asking the question. Because a lot of people spent quite a bit of time on thoughtful replies in the last thread, and probably won't write the same stuff all over again just two weeks later.

Of course many will, if not there would hardy be any threads here.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Of course many will, if not there would hardy be any threads here.

Yes, you do have a point there.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

"I have yet to meet any boat owner who has had in-mast furling for a considerable amount of time, and has yet to have some difficulty deploying or retracting at least once.". Ramblinrod

RR,

Read post #4. We have no complaints and have had no jams or problems other than having to replace a set of swivel bearings which dried and wore out after 16 years. But even that did not cause a service issue.

Aye but we have never met. ;-)

Glad to hear you are happy with it.

I hear lots of stories from those who are thrilled, until that one day it scares the living crap out of them.

It's like sailing in general, many good days before the inevitable bad one, seems to make the bad less bad.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Aye but we have never met. ;-)

Glad to hear you are happy with it.

I hear lots of stories from those who are thrilled, until that one day it scares the living crap out of them.

It's like sailing in general, many good days before the inevitable bad one, seems to make the bad less bad.

Sure, but I don't think there are any facts to show that disaster is "inevitable", with in-mast furling.

I'm not a fan boy and won't have in-mast furling on my next boat, but 90%+ of large (45'+) cruising boats in the UK have in-mast furling, and a large percentage of sailors are on their second or third boat with that system. People who have it, like it.

In-mast furling is more suitable for some latitudes and some types of sailing, and less suitable for other latitudes and other types of sailing, so one size does not fit every sailor (like with so many things). We discussed it in the other thread, in some depth.


That's not to say that jams never happen. Just ask Sir Ben Ainsley, possibly the world's most famous sailor at the moment, whose honeymoon was marred by a jam in his in-mast furling main!


But most stories are like Kenomac's above. My Dad's last boat had in-mast furling and he had never had a single jam by the time he sold the boat a couple of years ago, 30 years after buying it, and after single-handing to South America and tens of thousands of miles of other adventures.

[nickfox45]

Seems like the OP came to rant with his opinion already set in stone and not to discuss. I've only had issues with my in-mast furling before I understood how to operate it properly. I don't blame the system/sail for that. It'd also be my fault if I got behind the wheel of a car with a manual transmission and all I'd ever driven is an automatic.

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Are we really going to do this all over again just a couple of weeks later? Traditional Main vs In-mast Furling - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Well said. We have been there, done that, and I am underwhelmed by tales from shoreside beer drinkers.

If you don't like in-mast then fine. Buy what you want.

Conversely, those of us who have lived with and sailed many miles with in-mast have our own views.

All the views have their points. All of them have one thing in common: they have generated a lot of hot air. In bars, on paper.

The November 2015 YM has this from the editor: -

VIEW FROM THE HELM

D id you know that if you go head-to-
wind to furl a yacht’s genoa, you
increase the forces acting against
you? And do you know why most
mainsail furlers work sweetly on starboard tack
but don’t on port? I didn’t, until I bumped into
a bloke called Barrie at a boat show.

Barrie had a bee in his bonnet. Why, he
wanted to know, did Yachting Monthly keep
slagging off in-mast furling mainsails?

I didn’t think we had. We’ve printed letters
from readers who loathe them and responses
from folks who swear by them. I’m not keen,
personally, having wrestled with a hopeless
setup on a charter holiday, but I can see why
other people like them. We always mention
both the benefits and the drawbacks in print.

But that’s the problem, Barrie insisted. Every
time we mention in-mast furlers, we give
readers the impression that there’s something
inherently wrong with them. ‘And there isn’t,’
he said confidently. ‘The problem is that most
sailors don’t know how to use them.’

Furling mainsails divide opinion like anchors,
catamarans, lifejackets and membership of the
EU. There’s just no persuading some folks.

But as Barrie Neilson began scribbling rough


diagrams on the back of an envelope, I had to
admit he had a point. Barrie isn’t just another
cruiers on the other side of the debate. He runs
of one of the biggest charter fleets in the Med,
he’s owned a thousand yachts with in-mast
furling sails and clearly knows his onions.

It turns out that many sailors, like me, have
struggled with in-mast furlers - and decided
that we hate them - because we weren’t shown
a few basic techniques. And many others have
had bad experiences with sails that were made,
or rigged, by people who didn’t understand
how in-mast furling gear is supposed to work.
So I challenged Barrie to demonstrate what he
knows and you can read the result on piq.

I’m now more convinced about in-mast
furling, but I still wouldn’t want it on my own
boat. She’s already underpowered, by modern
standards, with a tad too much weight aloft.
Performance to windward is crucial for my sort
of cruising and I actually enjoy a bit of deck
work, even in a Force 6 with a lumpy sea state.

That said, next time I charter I’ll know how
to use the kit properly and my
wife won’t have to listen to me
swearing at a jammed sail
flogging in the breeze.

Kieran Flatt, editor

There is more of the edition at

https://archive.org/stream/Yachting_..._2015_djvu.txt

There is no end of opinionated verbiage all over the web! Enjoy.

But please leave it alone for a few months here!

[bjymd]

I have in mast furling on my DS 54 and did have a problem with doubling of the sail fabric at the base of the mast. I learned many important points from Isaac Fonseca (Wiggins Cay Rigging). The sail needs to be kept taught by the halyard and we added blocks on the mast to prevent slow slippage which allows the sail to become loose. It is also important to make sure that the boom is very level so that the forces on the sail are even. When bringing the sail out he favors hand cranking to allow you to feel any change in resistance. It is also important that the sheet pulls the sail out at 90 degrees from the mast to avoid wrinkles.
( I hopre I presented this properly, Isaac.) With these consideration, the sail pulls in and out without a hitch...until freakin Irma comes along and breaks off the mast....
Fair winds..

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Are we really going to do this all over again just a couple of weeks later? Traditional Main vs In-mast Furling - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I missed the earlier discussion to which you refer Dockhead. Irrespective, getting people engaged is what the forum is all about. But this is one of those topics that there's no right or wrong, it's all based on opinion and experience (or lack of and often third or fourth hand stories).

I really feel that the more senior members like yourself encourage and participate, the more likely it is that those less assertive might take the plunge and offer their thoughts. Thousands of people read but hardly ever post. That's a shame.

Let's face it, virtually all of the original posts aren't original and have endless variants, views and opinions. Virtually all could be dismissed and referenced back to some earlier discussion. In fact we could just say everything worth talking about has been discussed and we've enough information and so freeze the forum, job done.

But just looking through today's initial posts and we see:
Anchoring
Topside paint
Genoa sheet issue
Gear suggestions/recommendations
Passport/documentation
Facilities/advice in Chesapeake, Tahiti, and any far away place
Insurance
I bought a boat, (please reinforce my decision)
The endless hassles and issues of Yanmar cooling

And my all time favourite;
"I watched Sailing La Vagabonde, (or Uma, SV Delos or White Spot Pirates and any number of youtube vlogs and yes I do believe everything I see on my computer) and so what's the easiest & quickest way to get from my couch to being an ocean sailor with blue water boat without spilling my bowl of potatoe chips?

Nothing new, nothing original, all been done before.

And unfortunately no other contentious posts today but if we really want to get the blood flowing let's talk about:
Guns or not
Is there really a world beyond the US borders?
Will it be ok to sail around the Mexican wall?
How do I work illegally in 3rd world countries on board my $US500K cat?
Hurricane holes
Health insurance (when much of the world has free health care)
2 stroke vs 4 stroke
Mono vs multi hull

And Dockhead I am not in any way wishing to dis you or throw rocks, just saying that to me the forum is just like a yacht club. You wander in to the bar and hang out with other old buggers talking about the same old stuff as last week, and the week before and the week before. It's warm, it's friendly (mostly) and safe.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by grantmc

. . . And Dockhead I am not in any way wishing to dis you or throw rocks, just saying that to me the forum is just like a yacht club. You wander in to the bar and hang out with other old buggers talking about the same old stuff as last week, and the week before and the week before. It's warm, it's friendly (mostly) and safe.

Not dissing at all -- it's a fair description.

Still, there's nothing wrong with reading the existing threads, on a given question!

[captaingregger]

The only time my in-mast furler will jam is during UN-furl. I've NEVER even come close to a jam on the way in. Therefore, no safety issues as yet. The jam when unfurling is quite predictable on my boat and usually happens if I'm not directly into the win and then only at the first part of the unfurl process. Actually, it's not really a jam, rather it's a pinching of the dacron fabric as it exits the mast sleeve. Once enough of the sail is out of the mast it comes out quite easily. I usually either furl it back in tigher or just go up to the mast and jiggle the area where the pinch is occuring. Never much of a big deal but occassionally I'll need to climb the mast a few steps if the pinch is higher up (no biggie for me).

Of course an in-boom furler is much better. I can't see much reason to dispute that claim but if you've already got an in-mast furler, you aren't going to reasonably switch to a boom furler unless you have $20k+ to burn. I have that kind of money sitting aroudn but I can think of many, many better uses for it than a new boom. So it's a matter of justification of the expense, which is too difficult to reason for most, hence we stick with our old tech... tech that works just fine.

If the industry could get that in-boom furler price down to 1/4 the running figure then I think you'd see more conversions and many more inboom furlers out there.

[kas_1611]

Each to their own at the end of the day.

You hate them so feel free to not use them. Others prefer them so please respect our choice.

I've sailed on all 3 systems and have had all 3 types jam for various reasons including poor system set up. My own in mast furler has only given me a problem when a mousing line got caught so nothing to do with the sail or the system.

Used correctly they are no difference to any other sail system. We chose it because of the ease of handling, infinite reefing positions and accept there maybe a performance cost but still frequently get 8 or 9 kts so not a big loss for a cruiser.

At the end of the day everything is a personal choice. It would be really dull if we were all the same.

[Martkimwat]

If I can throw in my two penn'orth.. In the last year, I have seen three boats with in mast reefing having issues with them. It may be as you say, they are older systems although one of those boats was a quite new Halberg Rassy, also, a friend of mine, who is getting on a bit (in his 70s) sails a Superseal 26 single handed all the time, had an in mast reefing system fitted three years ago, has now had it removed and gone back to slab reefing, because the performance of his boat suffered with in mast reefing... just saying...

[ramblinrod]

Excuse me for my ignorance of in-boom furling, but how does one adjust outhaul, especially when partially furled?

[Otia]

Originally Posted by double u

had both on the charter base I workes on in the 90ies: in-boom was terrible (angle between boom & mast had to be 150% correct, boat had to be headed into the wind, if necessary with engine, to reef)

Why is that so?

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Excuse me for my ignorance of in-boom furling, but how does one adjust outhaul, especially when partially furled?

Good question... would love to hear an answer on this

I have a slab reefing main. I must say I find boom furling systems appealing.
My main objection to in-mast furling is the the loss of main battens. Would love to hear what you think about this. Should it be compensated with a more sophisticated (expensive) sail fabric to maintain sail shape?

I need to change my main sail. I think I will take the opportunity to replace my lazy jack/slab reefing system with a dutchman sail flaking system.
This seems the best of all. Any opinions?

[SteveSadler]

I agree its all be said 2 weeks ago. I noticed Future has a 32' boat and likely has never had to reef a 50' boat while going dead downwind with a genoa poled out. Furling the genoa, heading up into heavy trade winds and seas, spending 20 minutes reefing a flogging sail. How fun is that?
On the other hand, staying on course, letting out 5' of outhaul and grinding in the furling line in under a minute, all done by my wife while I'm sleeping!
Sure if done without reading the manual, it can jam, but can be be worked free with little effort (if you read the manual)