Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-06-2016, 19:58   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 28
Sails from China

I am sure someone else has started a thread on this but I cant find it.....So sailsfrom China. Any thoughts ....Cruising sails
Smudge601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 20:25   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,983
Re: Sails from China

I looked at some sails a friend just got from Hong Kong sails, looked pretty decent, price was good, Challenger cloth.
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 20:40   #3
Registered User
 
Mr B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 2,912
Re: Sails from China

I buy a lot of stuff from China, Very rarely I get caught out, But thats more my fault for not looking close enough,
They do have 3 Billion customers in China, They do make a lot of Crap,
Their technology is some thing else, Even if a lot of it is copied,
They make more sails than the USA do, There are a lot of sailing vessels in China,
Have a look at the Chinese factory where its made, Google it,
They do make good quality, But really cheap isnt,

I bought my Boats new electronics from the same company that makes the Made In America electronics,
Their American market is very small compared to their own, They make their own brand as well as the American labelled,
I bought their brand for a fraction of the cost, Same gear as the American ones,
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 20:41   #4
Registered User
 
Butler's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Boat: Pearson 281
Posts: 684
Images: 18
Re: Sails from China

Smudge...(a Dickens sort of handle...)
From what I understand there is one major loft in Hong Kong that builds sails for a number of vendors. To the extent that that is the case it comes down to the vendor to set the quality of construction etc. The more they ask of this loft, the actual producer, the higher the wholesale price of production. Depending on the vendor chosen one will find a range of quality and, of course the more they pay the more you pay and vice-verse. I just bought a new main fron Peak Sails, an outfit with EZ pricing and a somewhat notorius rep in terms of communication, delivery dates, cloth quality etc. Why oh why would I do such a thing? Well they were offering an affordable price on an installment plan. That worked for this broke-ass sailor. I took a chance and got the sails in a 6.5 oz challenger cloth that is only double stiched but has a draft line, all numbers, insignia etc. and will be a perfectly fine casual beercan racing sail. AND I found that they have completely resolved their communications and shipping problems. I had a reasonably well made mainsail in hand before I had even paid my final installment. These guys ask less of the loft and they get what they pay for...so did I.
I asked for the "econobox" of sails and that is what I got. If I work with them again, which I may, I will work with the sales rep to arrange for more quality touches and we will negotiate on price.
Other vendors will work with a different quality metric with that producer from the start but it is always important to pin the sales reps down on elements of construction and let them know that if you don't find the assured quality they will come right back.
If I had better money I would work with the premium sateside producers but (sigh) not in this life!
Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 21:22   #5
Marine Service Provider
 
Kestrahl's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sri Lanka
Boat: Laurie Davidson 35
Posts: 394
Re: Sails from China

I'm a sail designer and live in this part of the world so get to see a lot first hand.
There is a massive variation in sails made in China.
The biggest producer (CSF) only does OEM manufacturing for a massive amount of sailmakers worldwide big and small and has high quality standards. The design and material is up to the sailmaker who they are working with.
Wilfer china sails seems to be a copy cat of CSF but no where near the same standard. Doyle also have their own manufacturing in China I believe and possibly others.
Then there are a gaggle of Chinese owned sailmakers in HK who have been around for years and years doing cheap cruising sails i.e. Lee, far east, HK, sails east etc The workmanship is normally good but design and cheap materials often let them down, especially on yachts that are a bit more tricky like a big cruising multi or a high performance boat. UK sails, North sails and most of the other brand names have a big market share locally in HK also.
Challenge dacron is generally used because it is the cheapest but not always the best quality.
So at the end of the day you get what you pay for out of China, you want cheap and nasty you can get it or you want good quality also can.
Kestrahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 23:06   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Sails from China

We recently purchased a high quality DYS tri radial cut main sail from the UK sailmaker Dolphin Sails for the same price as a basic cut Chinese dacron sail would have cost after shipping.

Sure the Chinese sail probably costs less when it's imported, but by the time the domestic sailmaker adds in their markup, there isn't much of a savings over having the sail made domestically.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 23:32   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
Kestrahl's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sri Lanka
Boat: Laurie Davidson 35
Posts: 394
Re: Sails from China

Did you ask Dolphin where it was made? Being a local company doesn't necessarily mean a sail is made locally unless you specifically ask. I've seen a couple of Dolphin sails which I can tell were manufactured in China. They probably went all the way to UK and then back to Malaysia.. Not that there is anything wrong with that but if you care and want to know it always pays to ask, as not all sailmakers will tell you upfront where your sail is made.
Kestrahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2016, 23:59   #8
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,782
Re: Sails from China

Support your local sailmaker. Who else can you deal with face-to-face?
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2016, 01:16   #9
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Sails from China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrahl View Post
Did you ask Dolphin where it was made? Being a local company doesn't necessarily mean a sail is made locally unless you specifically ask. I've seen a couple of Dolphin sails which I can tell were manufactured in China. They probably went all the way to UK and then back to Malaysia.. Not that there is anything wrong with that but if you care and want to know it always pays to ask, as not all sailmakers will tell you upfront where your sail is made.
Made in the UK as far as I know. They did tell me when the sail was in the production schedule, and it did seem to be manufactured during a specific week in April and was ready for shipment a week later. Beyond what they tell me??? But they do produce all of the Oyster sails (or most anyway) to specific measurements obtained when the boat was new and there are quite a few customized details on the sail that I would think would be difficult for a distant manufacturer to replicate. Dolphin also made some custom (to our measurements) side mesh awnings for our bimini at the same time.

I can't imagine the company switching a Chinese sail for one of their own, it would be devastating to their reputation if any company was caught doing this.
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2016, 02:32   #10
Marine Service Provider
 
Kestrahl's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sri Lanka
Boat: Laurie Davidson 35
Posts: 394
Re: Sails from China

With OEM sail manufacturing the idea is the sail can be customized to a level where it is hard to tell if it was made locally or offshore as all detailing can be computer designed/marked or photographed and replicated. Many lofts outsource manufacturing during busy periods or for certain sail types that are to expensive to make locally. Some are more honest about it than others so if you want to be sure it doesn't hurt to ask rather than assuming it is made locally.

And its also suicide for a OEM manufacturer to sell direct to the public .
Kestrahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2016, 21:12   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 28
Re: Sails from China

Thanks to all, you have given me much to think about. It seems to me if I am to use the Asian market I need to do so armed with the knowledge of knowing exactly what I want and with some ( and better) understanding of the available Fabrics there names and which weight to choose I will ponder this and come back with further questions around the above topics. Cheers
Smudge601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2016, 22:36   #12
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,438
Re: Sails from China

Smudge,

svTOTEM, a cruising CF member, is a sailmaker and knows a whole lot about the Chinese market. Perhaps an advanced Google Search (down a ways on the CF Search menu) will find some of his posts on the subject for you. He has been quite forthcoming with info.

Fwiw, we always like to deal with a local sailmaker, because if anything needs adjusting, there's no shipping, and it's easy to work things out without a long lag time.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2016, 13:09   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
Re: Sails from China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrahl View Post
Did you ask Dolphin where it was made? Being a local company doesn't necessarily mean a sail is made locally unless you specifically ask. I've seen a couple of Dolphin sails which I can tell were manufactured in China. They probably went all the way to UK and then back to Malaysia.. Not that there is anything wrong with that but if you care and want to know it always pays to ask, as not all sailmakers will tell you upfront where your sail is made.
Here's the response I received yesterday directly from Dolphin Sails, I Was also invited to watch my sails being made in their loft next time when we purchase our new Jibs. We finally got a chance to try out our new mainsail early this morning. WOW! What a difference.

Here's the letter from Dolphin:

"The sail was made at our Loft in West Mersea, Essex. The fabric is manufactured in Germany, we cut the panels using our laser cutter in Harwich before manufacturing the sail in Mersea.

Hope all is well on your shake down sail. Keep an eye on the leach line as this will not have been set by us in the loft.

Regards

Jon Sturmer

West Mersea - Harwich - Hamble - Palma

00 44(0)1206 384412"
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2016, 16:46   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,432
Images: 7
Re: Sails from China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Fwiw, we always like to deal with a local sailmaker, because if anything needs adjusting, there's no shipping, and it's easy to work things out without a long lag time.

Ann
And, if we put all the local ones out of business who is going to do repairs for us?
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2016, 11:53   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1
Re: Sails from China

Hi gentlemen

I need your help to renew my Catalac 8M, I live in Dubai and need addresses of sailmakers in Asia.
Zayed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
China, sail, sails

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Sails, Sails and More Sails Slainte40 Classifieds Archive 4 23-04-2011 11:59
For Sale: Sails, Sails, Sails - Sydney, Australia ribbony Classifieds Archive 6 22-02-2010 19:28
China - US Tension in S. China Sea starfish62 Cruising News & Events 21 11-03-2009 07:24
Sails, Sails, Sails... for sale? Jack Long General Sailing Forum 5 13-08-2008 23:41

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.