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Old 29-06-2018, 03:39   #1
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Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Hello all,

It's time for me to plan for new sail wardrobe before going on my round-the-world trip.
My current sails are from PO, most of them are already 20 years old. The mainsail is still in good shape, probably because of thick Dacron and full battens.

Boat:
Masthead sloop
Lenght of hull - 11.9m (39 ft)
Beam - 3.85 m (12.6 ft)
Length water line - 9.2m (30 ft) - I think a bit more
Draft - 2 m (6.3 ft)
Displacement - 9000 kg

Rig size:
I - 14.4 m (49 ft)
J - 4.7 m (15.5 ft)
P - 13.2 m (43 ft)
E - 3.9 m (13 ft)

Currently, I have those sails (size not confirmed):
Mainsail - full battened, 3 reefs, 28 m (300 ft)
Genoa on roller- approx 140%, 50 m (540 ft)
Hanked on blade jib on inner forestay, can be set as self tacking, 95%, approx 28 m (300 ft)
Storm jib: 18 m (190 ft)
Spinnaker asymmetric - 90 m

I plan to sail offshore shorthanded most of the time and singlehanded sometimes. I need to be sure my GF can do sail changes in the middle of the night when it blows.

I have problems:
Genoa - it is very big, a bit baggy, and very hard to grind (Lewmar 46) if going to the wind.
Jib - heavy bag to drag to foredeck, put the inner forestay, hank it.

I have some ideas:
Have inner forestay further aft with Jib on roller furler. - then I use either Genoa for lighter winds and Jib for stronger winds and for tacking in channel
Convert to Cutter rig - then the sail area is reduced - should be easier to furl them and grinding will be easier. - but what is the recommended distance between the fore stay and staysail stay? What is the recommended staysail area?
I have calculated that for staysail - I will be 10.3m (34 ft) and J will be 3.2 m (10.5 ft) and the sail area will probably be 13 m
- is this enough for 40 ft boat?

I also plan to buy Code 0 on a furler in any case. What should be the distance between Genoa furler and Code 0 furler near mast head?

What would be your advices?
What sail size / area are optimal for 40 ft offshore boat rigged as cutter?


I am attaching photos of the boat, mast and some current sail calculations I did.
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Old 30-06-2018, 01:04   #2
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

NICE boat you got yourself there, xslim, niceynice! & one of those ultraneat old Sailomat-windvanes...!
our last boat (while being somewhat smaller-37'- & considerably lighter -6,2t empty-) had similar rig: 30m main, 50m genoa, jibs 32 & 17m(reefable to 12 or so)-no roller furler (we were younger then...). thinking back I see one way to a more userfriendly configuration:
~35-38mjib on the headstay furler - could probably rolled down to 25m
55m flat code 0(?) on a furler that can be removed & stowed
solentstay with 15m or so reefable jib (decksgymnastics necessary)
fixed cutterstay with roller I'm pretty sure will be a pia when tacking
amastersailmaker btw here in austria is
CBS Sails (I'm unconnected!): made a main for a 47' cat of a friend of mine that lasted 80.ooo miles (>2rtw) & was still usable!
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Old 30-06-2018, 03:54   #3
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

110 yankee jib
Inner cutter forestay with hayfield lever and hanked on staysail
Drifter on a top down furler
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Old 30-06-2018, 08:03   #4
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

You might think about having your inner stay removable and only using it for passages. Then a large genoa wont be as hard to tack. I dont care for the clutter of halyards in the cockpit, but I am setting my staysail (hanked on) halyard to the cockpit with a downhaul . That way, I can raise or lower it from the cockpit and if lowered, can have it firmly pulled down before going forward to tie it off. For daysailing or coastal the inner will be tied back out of the way. If you make the staysail a roller, you will always be tacking around it. Just something to consider. _____Grant.
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:09   #5
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

I do currently have the removable staysail and hanked on Jib.

The problem I have - The weakest person - my GF, cannot physically manage in middle of night with sleep deprivation:
1. Rolling big genoa by herself
2. Grinding big genoa if going close into the wind
3. Bringing heavy jib and hanking it on removable forestay

I think she could manage a smaller size sails if it is a matter of tacking them or furling them.
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:39   #6
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

the solution, xslim is to
GET UP & DO IT YOURSELF!!!
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:35   #7
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Furling should not be heavy, something is wrong.

Fit 2 blocks to the genoa clew, double the sheet, and suddenly the sheeting is EASY. Like having 92 winches.

You can leave the staysail hanked on if you expect to use it. Just prepare it in the evening, tie it down.

I think it is too much hassle to change the sail plan. The new genoa will be less baggy and have less tendency to overpower the boat. One alternative is to cut it like a Yankee, with a higher clew. Improves visibility also. If your sheet geometry can accept it.
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Old 02-07-2018, 06:56   #8
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

For passages, leave the staysail hanked on. You or the first mate wont be tacking very often offshore. If you are going upwind and expect it to increase, roll the genoa and tie in the first reef and use the staysail, or tie in the first reef at dusk and if it increases, roll the genoa. If you have a staysail cut with reef points, you wont be changing sails at all until you are near survival conditions and I am sure you wont send the crew forward to deal with that. If you add a downhaul for the staysail, there will be little need to go forward on short notice so waiting for the watch change to deal with sails wont be such a big deal. On a passage sailing for a few hours with less than ideal sail combinations is fine if it allows sleep for the off watch or the safety of waiting for both people being alert for sail changes. And dont forget that if you are not in the shipping lanes and are exhausted, you can heave-to and catch up on sleep for safeties sake. Your boat sounds like a very good cruising boat. Good Luck. ____Grant.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:12   #9
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Hey guys,
What will be the proper way to set a jib downhaul? My halyard is on mast, should I lead the downhaul there as well via block ?
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:29   #10
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Downhaul can be very small diameter. If your hanks are large enough it can be led around a block at the base of the stay and up thru the hanks to the head.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:49   #11
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by xslim View Post
Hey guys,
What will be the proper way to set a jib downhaul? My halyard is on mast, should I lead the downhaul there as well via block ?
This is a good solution.
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Old 02-07-2018, 16:11   #12
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Very little hardware needed for the downhaul for the staysail. Just another small padeye and small block just aft of the tack fitting for the staysail and run the downhaul back to the cockpit. That is assuming the staysail halyard runs to the cockpit. It can be run inside of the hanks or lash some loops along the luff of the sail. Attach to the halyard with a snap shackle or tie it or any other method you want. The English used to make hanks that had a loop built in for a downhaul, but I have only seen them in old photos. When most boats had bow sprits and hank on sails, the downhaul was a real safety factor. I think they still are a safety factor with a any hanked on sail. Just another opinion. ____Grant.
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Old 06-07-2018, 18:17   #13
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Re: Sail set advice for 39' Offshore cruising boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by double u View Post
NICE boat you got yourself there, xslim, niceynice! & one of those ultraneat old Sailomat-windvanes...!
our last boat (while being somewhat smaller-37'- & considerably lighter -6,2t empty-) had similar rig: 30m main, 50m genoa, jibs 32 & 17m(reefable to 12 or so)-no roller furler (we were younger then...). thinking back I see one way to a more userfriendly configuration:
~35-38mjib on the headstay furler - could probably rolled down to 25m
55m flat code 0(?) on a furler that can be removed & stowed
solentstay with 15m or so reefable jib (decksgymnastics necessary)
fixed cutterstay with roller I'm pretty sure will be a pia when tacking
amastersailmaker btw here in austria is
CBS Sails (I'm unconnected!): made a main for a 47' cat of a friend of mine that lasted 80.ooo miles (>2rtw) & was still usable!


I think part of your question is should you get new sails if so what. The cloth is most important as is the cut.
I have found there is a willingness of a good sail maker to visit your boat and take his own measurements. A sailmaker who will serve you best will discuss how you like to sail and where you intend to travel. The percentage of upwind sailing, trade wind sailing down wind should determine the suit of sails.
There many options to consider.
Bad weather sailing is largely a matter of choice up to a point when seriously cruising. Why leave a perfectly safe and comfortable anchorage to bash upwind in 30 knots. Wait a week and it's ideal.
You can and will get caught occasionally
Learn how to sail single handed. The most important components are rest, hygiene and food.
With two onboard there is good reason not to attempt to tack or change sails without all hands on deck. Nothing worse than waking up to the sheets flapping and no partner.
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