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Old 11-05-2018, 17:41   #1
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Rutgerson batcar slides?

Anyone using these? They look like a decent improvement over standard slugs, without needing a new track. For a 40 foot boat, but with a smallish high aspect 350 sqaure foot main. Click image for larger version

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Old 11-05-2018, 18:19   #2
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Yes, we do on the full batten big roach main onboard Lady Rover (36foot cat).
Works now for over 5 years without issues.

We also use a double main halyard.

I'd recommend to point into the wind when dropping the sail though (which is good practice anyway).

Only thing I cannot comment on, is how they last on the tropics with very high UV. Still I do not expect real problems.

Good product in my experience.
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Old 11-05-2018, 18:56   #3
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Anyone using these? They look like a decent improvement over standard slugs, without needing a new track. For a 40 foot boat, but with a smallish high aspect 350 sqaure foot main. Attachment 169625
Just sailed on a 38' Rival with these that were about 6 months old. The three lower 'cars' were already broken, and not just at the wheels, but the entire slide was cracked and worthless. Keep in mind, this was an old design boat with small main (258 sqft). No way a 350 sqft main would work at all.


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Old 11-05-2018, 19:28   #4
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Thanks Franziska and Matt, interesting how different your experiences with them have been.

I wonder about the sizing for the broken ones. It looks like they have a high load variant (the 35 and 36 models https://www.rutgerson.se/product/bat...-steel-thread/), and also the all alloy limousine models for 60 footers. The full length battens concentrate the sail loads onto those cars, and I guess modern sailcloth and battens also transmit much higher shock loads than a soft sail.

At this stage I'll probably only fit a couple of Full length battens to the top of the sail.
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Old 11-05-2018, 19:31   #5
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Our main is about 300 sq ft and we never experienced any of these problems.
And, usually multihulls sails are stressed harder than mono sails.

Btw. I have no connection whatsoever with Rutgerson.
Just happy to have found a working alternative without expensive track.
Further, tracks can fail too and sometimes you can not even get the sail down then.
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Old 11-05-2018, 20:43   #6
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Thanks Franziska and Matt, interesting how different your experiences with them have been.

I wonder about the sizing for the broken ones. It looks like they have a high load variant (the 35 and 36 models https://www.rutgerson.se/product/bat...-steel-thread/), and also the all alloy limousine models for 60 footers. The full length battens concentrate the sail loads onto those cars, and I guess modern sailcloth and battens also transmit much higher shock loads than a soft sail.

At this stage I'll probably only fit a couple of Full length battens to the top of the sail.
The owner of the Rival is a pro rigger and worked for Mack Sails out of Stuart Florida until just a few months ago (now started his own rigging company). They are the plastic high load model and cracked right where the stud connects to the slide above the wheels on each one. Once he installed them on his new main and I saw them work, I looked into adding them to my main, but decided to wait until I get a new sail. I'm happy I waited as I witnessed one brake when we sailed last week.

One thing, he does reef off the wind which puts a lot of side load stress on the slides.... but being able to reef and not have to round up is the entire reason I want a mainsail track to begin with.

Now the Limousine model does look promising! Maybe I'll have to look into the cost of those vs adding a track to my mast.

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Old 11-05-2018, 21:31   #7
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

I Put them on when i replaced the Main in Thailand a year ago. So I have about 12-15 K miles them now.

I like them and they are a huge improvement from the ballbearing cars that were on before.

I have had one intermediate car just above the first reef fail twice now, it has opened just enough that the metal pin has slid out. At first I thought it was the car but now that it has happened in the same place twice , it has to do with the loading. on the first reef. No doubt about that.

I carry one batten car and one Intermediate car as spares and they are cheap. Which reminds me i need to order the replacement.....

I took a hard look at the Tides Strong track when i purchased the rutgerson system.

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Old 12-05-2018, 00:40   #8
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Thanks Lama, that's reassuring. I know you have done some very hard miles on those battcars, and your boat is similar enough mine loads wise.

I definately need to be able to reef, raise and lower downwind within reason. I've not had an issue so far with standard 22mm flat slides on smaller boats up to 35 feet, but the bigger ones I have sailed have all had expensive external track systems.
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Old 12-05-2018, 00:47   #9
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
The owner of the Rival is a pro rigger and worked for Mack Sails out of Stuart Florida until just a few months ago (now started his own rigging company). They are the plastic high load model and cracked right where the stud connects to the slide above the wheels on each one. Once he installed them on his new main and I saw them work, I looked into adding them to my main, but decided to wait until I get a new sail. I'm happy I waited as I witnessed one brake when we sailed last week. [emoji2]

One thing, he does reef off the wind which puts a lot of side load stress on the slides.... but being able to reef and not have to round up is the entire reason I want a mainsail track to begin with.

Now the Limousine model does look promising! Maybe I'll have to look into the cost of those vs adding a track to my mast.

Matt
Thanks Matt, it would be interesting to know if the cars are breaking during reefing, or in normal use.

Does he have a single line or a two line reefing system and what sort of spacing between the slides. A lot of modern sails seem to be made with very large slide spacings of around 1 meter or more, to reduce the stack height. This would load up each car more than the traditional close spaced slides.

It does sound like they work reasonably well from a reefing downwind point if view at least.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:55   #10
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

I was looking at those Rutgersons as well, our boat has a big fully battened main.

Tried some spray silicone lubricant from Bunnings first, I was able to pull the main up but the halyard at the mast, and it drops all the way down when I open the jammer!

I also have the Tides Track sizing kit, but they are pretty expensive and recommend you don’t use them for a trysail, so not much use here in Tassie.

I was planning to use those Rutgerson cars on the batten slides, so the info about reliability is useful.
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Old 12-05-2018, 03:53   #11
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Hi OlafHart, I wonder where you get these slides down here. Might have to talk to Russ at Storm Bay sails. The no trysail warning on the tides marine track is interesting. I tend to use a very deep reefed main most of the time anyway, but it does show a lack of faith in the strength of the track. And a deep reefed main probably puts a similar load on the track anyway. Not that I've heard of any real issues with the tides track. Everbody I've talked to raves about them, but cost and weight are a big factor with me.

Quote:
Storm Tri-Sail track

Tides recommends that its track system not be used to support storm tri-sails. When these sails are deployed, weather conditions are abysmal." https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrack/faq_5.php
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:08   #12
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

I run with a deep third reef as well, pretty much takes the Tides Track out of the equation.

Russ would be my first stop too.

When does Boo Boo get back to NZ?

I heard your folks were on board at the moment.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:52   #13
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

Yeah, the folks joined for the Panama to Tahiti leg, and I guess Boo Boo and the rest of the Rogues will be back in NZ before the cyclone season starts. Currently they are somewhere near the Galapago's Islands. Feeling a bit envious...

https://www.facebook.com/ROGUE.sailing.family/

In a lot of ways I think that tides track statement about not being recommended for a trysail is rubbish, the loads on a smaller vessels trysail shouldn't be an more than a big cats main with a reef in it. They should just specify that the big headboard cars are needed to spread the load or do some proper testing to work out the limits.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:04   #14
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

I have a big main 395 sq and a really deep third. Deffenitly not a problem. Also never had any binding issues down wind. Now issues with the lazy jacks thats a different story......

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Old 13-05-2018, 07:21   #15
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Re: Rutgerson batcar slides?

I've seen Beneteau use them on a 523 main we replaced which was 680sqft and the old ones were still okay ( they weren't the high load version ).
The batten sliders can break if people screw them into the box to far and it levers on the boltrope of the sail. They need to unscrewed far enough that the slide can rotate fully and the wheels miss the front of the sail. Normally there is about 10mm of thread showing. The intermediates need to be spaced away from the luff to match the batten sliders.
The flat sliders are stronger than the round sliders which have a much smaller neck.
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