Roll Swaging vs Copper Swage and Thimble

[Fishman_Tx]

Here's the main site for the swage tool..
SWAGE-IT TOOLS INC. S & F TOOL COMPANY

[Jmolan]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

There's a good article by Nigel Calder regarding synthetic rigging in this month's Sail Mag. If I'm remembering right synthetic, including Dynex Dux, needs a cover for UV protection and Chafing protection also.

NO on both.......or at least it is your choice....:-)

Their are many mis-conceptions about Dynex Dux.

Nigel has written a great article. I would recommend it.

Please see the links below.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ner-22345.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-14322-28.html

Ourselves and the Kiwis and Aussies are conducting UV tests as time goes by we will be able to make definitive projections on UV.

Dynex Dux is rated "Best" by Lloyd's for UV. I have rigged my entire boat with bare Dynex Dux. we will pull a rope per year and break it to get data on loss from UV expose. The boat is in the Sonora Desert with 350 Sunny days a year.

As far as chafing. They make butchers gloves from SK-75 Dynex. The stuff is very chaff resistant. I have seen horrible conditions on rusty sandy decks and sharp edges where this stuff holds up.

All that being said you can get it factory covered now....:-)

I have some figures on the other link.

7mm Dux covered is 8.6 mm...or 11/32" diam. has a breaking strength of 15,500lbs.

3/8" 316 SS wire breaking strength is 14,500 lbs. breaking strength.
Wire 3/8 in. 1x19 SS Type 316 (per ft.): Mauri Pro Sailing

The wire comes in at 3.45 ft. per pound
Dux comes in at 44 ft. per pound

I just got the roll of 7mm we will rig a 34' boat with.

328 ft. weighs 7.5 lbs.

Or if you used 7.5 lbs of 3/8 316 wire you would get 25.8 feet of wire.

You cannot even rig one stay with the same weight you would rig and entire 34' Searunner with......:-)

You can splice it yourself, inspect everything with no hidden corrosion, and your boat will stand up and sail that much better.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Barna,
I didn't mean splice. I meant double back around the thimbles. Thanks for the correction.
regards

[SkiprJohn]

Fishman sent a good link for the tools. The top one on the left is exactly the same as the one I loaned to a friend and never got back.
regards,

[hellosailor]

Could be another hole in my learning curve, but AFAIK copper swages are for electrical work--not structural rigging. Aside from galvanic concerns, copper is infamous for work hardening and I'd expect the routine working of the rig to cause the copper to work harden and then fail much sooner than conventional swages.

If the original rig was "big enough", and for a boat that small it certainly could be, then upsizing the rigging will only give you less stabilty (from more weight aloft) more expense, and more more expense as you try to get pins and connections that all match up with the sizing. Before I'd up-size, I'd check the load ratings for the original rig and if they are sufficient--leave it be.

More is not necessarily better, in rigging or tequila shots.

[Dove]

onestepcsy37, that's great advice, i didn't think of using two copper swages/ferrules, that would certainly give a greater safety factor, and have a similar "grip" length to that of a roll swage.
Yes, it's a cheap boat, and spending a couple of thousand on the rigging is not an option for me, i also have to factor in the majority of my sailing is coastal or inshore, and i'm not racing, and reef early for the comfort of my family, so rig pressures are not great.
I think i'll stick with 3/16" 1 x 19, use thimbles and double swages. I guess if there's any sign of corrosion or fatigue i could remove the shroud and replace it fairly cheaply in the future. I'm going to do the backstay first (rig is single spreader, inline, for and aft lowers), and see how that holds up for a month or two before tackling the rest of the rig.
The Dynex would be out of place on my boat, she's a battle-scarred cruiser with a tempermental engine, blown out sails and a sagging deck! (but i love her!!!)
Any more thoughts welcomed before i hop into the bosun's chair on the weekend!!!

[SkiprJohn]

Out of the Jamestown Distributors catalog what some of us have called ferrules are "Oval Sleeves Copper and Nickel Plated." There is a Nico-Press Tool but I've always called them swaging tools. In the 80s I was able to come up with some solid bronze thimbles that you could drill whatever sized hole in the center that you wanted. I haven't seen those in catalogs in awhile. That would be top notch.
regards,
JohnL

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by Dove

Yes, it's a cheap boat, and spending a couple of thousand on the rigging is not an option for me, i also have to factor in the majority of my sailing is coastal or inshore, and i'm not racing, and reef early for the comfort of my family, so rig pressures are not great.!

A 24 foot boat shouldn't cost a couple thousand to have rigged professionally. I had my 25 foot boat rerig by a professional shop a couple years ago, they did the works, and it was just tad over $600. That was pin to pin and new compression sleeve.

[Dove]

No problem sourcing the nickle plated sleeves, and the swaging tool is free to use if i buy the wire from the chandlery! Looks like i'll be rerigging my boat for (in aussie dollars) $ 200 wire, $ 40 thimbles and swages, and $ 240 rigging screws. Beautiful, and less than half the price than the cheapest rigger quote. I might hunt around for solid thimbles, they would be great.

[s/v Jedi]

If you want it cheap without any worries about copper sleeves etc. you can just old-fashioned splice it. Look at the traditional boats, they still do that.

cheers,
Nick.

[roberttigar]

I suggest you get a quote from Rigging Only(riggingonly.com). These guys are good, turnaround time is quick and they are very competitive. Bob

[Northeaster]

Not to start a huge debate, but am I missing something about synthetic standing rigging?

In the Colligo article, it says you can have their synthetic rigging, for about the same price as wire rigging. Re: UV, it says it will last 3-5 years ( I realize it may be more in Northern climates).
However, as my wire standing rigging has been on for 30 years (have replaced forestay / backstay last year, and will do shrouds next year, just in case - the boat is only in water 4 months a year), I do not see the value in the synthetic rigging!

Exlanation please!

[Fishman_Tx]

Have you tried an industrial rigger rather than marine? They're usually quite a bit less expensive.

[Dove]

Industrial riggers were a bit cheaper, after a few more calls i got quotes of close to Aussie $ 160 for a 8m length of 3/16" 1 x 19 wire with ronstan terminal end and turnbuckle (Sydney lifting, Brookvale). I was looking at $ 60 to do myself, but that was with a stainless body turnbuckle, not a proper bronze body one like the ronstan.
I'm in agreement with the synthetic stuff, this rig has been on the boat for 35 years and i still have confidence in it, but the insurers don't!

[Jmolan]

Might be best to get a new thread going on fiber rigging if there is interest. I do not want to hijack this thread....there are any number of topics we could cover on the stuff.
Would be glad to try to contribute what I know.