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Old 12-02-2021, 09:28   #1
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Replace Main or Genny first?

I was finally able to pick up the sails for my new-to-me O'Day 30. As expected (and priced into the deal), the main & genny "sails" are white(ish) traingle shaped rags. The newest of the current inventory was made in 1996. The asym spin looks & feels good, also circa 1996. I'm not sure it's even been rigged. I'm assuming it's OK for my casual cruising on the Great Lakes.

I have an emotional problem writing a check big enough to cover a new headsail and a new main. It's more palatable to buy one, lick my wounds, then buy the other.

So, buy a new main, or a new genny first? Or, if I buy both at the same time, am I likely to get enough of a discount to make me cringe less?
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:42   #2
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

A local sail maker would likely give you some discount for two sails. A good sailmaker will also look at the rags and let you know if they are beyond repair.

If your on the east coast of the USA try the following.

Jerry Latell
Latell and Ailsworth Sailmakers
and Evolution Sails Chesapeake Bay
jerry@latellsails.com
loft: 804-776-6151
cell: 804-436-6644
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:51   #3
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Buy the headsail first. Your main has a lot more ways to tweak it till you can afford a replacement. You have the clew outhaul, the cunningham, the boom vang, the leech line, the main traveller, etc. to alter the shape of your main to mitigate defects.
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Old 12-02-2021, 18:49   #4
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Thanks!

It makes compete sense to replace the genny first. I made some calls... and bought a new mainsail.

A semi-local loft had a new sail that is almost exactly what I would have ordered for my boat. It was a cancelled order, and I got the sail for a SIGNIFICANT discount. I've agreed not to share details- but I'm happy. (we'll see when I actually get the sail- maybe there is a reason it was cancelled?)

Thanks!
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Old 13-02-2021, 03:54   #5
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Probably nothing to do with the sail. Common reasons:


1) Owner is no longer sailing due to health, job change, family problems, etc.
2) Owner bought a different boat, great deal fell in owners lap and couldn't say no
3) Something happened to the boat e.g. engine failure that is not economically sensible to fix, storm damage, grounding
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Old 13-02-2021, 03:56   #6
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

As other said, jib first. Then contact sail bags. They will take your old sail and give you a FREE bag.
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Old 13-02-2021, 04:00   #7
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Bacon sails has several almost new sails both main and jib that will fit your boat.

You might like the price better.

You can do a search here:

https://baconsails.com/

https://baconsails.com/bacon/select_sailboat_API.php
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Old 13-02-2021, 08:04   #8
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayakerChuck View Post
It makes compete sense to replace the genny first. I made some calls... and bought a new mainsail.

A semi-local loft had a new sail that is almost exactly what I would have ordered for my boat. It was a cancelled order, Thanks!
That makes sense and how we got our Assm. I took in our old and very fragile genoa for repair after a 4ft tear appeared in not very strong wind. The Assm was effectively half the new price so a quick dash to the cash point machine ensured. If your Assm is 1996 that's fine they don't get used much and being a beam reach to a deep broad reach sail less critical sail shape.

Don't scrimp on the choice of sail cloth for the Genoa. Its a mine field trying sort them out into some sort of quality order. Personally, I think its worth paying a bit more for quality. https://www.sanders-sails.co.uk/materials.html

The exception is a deal to good to miss. Our Moody is very similar in size to your O'Day and whilst we making do with a fragile genoa for the first couple of years bought a second hand 90% jib from Ebay, £50 as a get you home, just in case. Turned out to be almost new and still crinkly, I think from a small racing day boat. We have used it a couple of times as a twin headsail rig for fun but since it is the size of a medium rucksac is kept on board just in case.

Good luck with the O'Day
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Old 13-02-2021, 08:30   #9
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayakerChuck View Post
Thanks!

It makes compete sense to replace the genny first. I made some calls... and bought a new mainsail.

A semi-local loft had a new sail that is almost exactly what I would have ordered for my boat. It was a cancelled order, and I got the sail for a SIGNIFICANT discount. I've agreed not to share details- but I'm happy. (we'll see when I actually get the sail- maybe there is a reason it was cancelled?)

Thanks!
It seems like you've found a mainsail first.

In my opinion that is a good choice. Many people don't appreciate the importance of the main, and in fact we often see boats sailing under genoa or spinnaker without the main hoisted. That is fine for a lazy day and casual sailing. But when conditions are a bit dodgy you need a mainsail that you can depend on. It can become your "get home" sail.

An old sail may have weakened cloth which will tear in a blow, so inspect your main carefully and if it is not up to snuff, replace it.
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Old 13-02-2021, 08:51   #10
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Thanks!

After pricing genoas, I just might build one. I own a canvas shop and have the right machines, work space, and most of the tools. For a main, the savings is minimal, so I'd rather just buy one. For a big genny, the difference is close to a full boat buck.

Good fabric is always worth it. The cost of materials, at least for dacrons, is less than half of the cost of a sail. In the canvas biz, materials are roughly 20 to 30% of the total. With sails, the percentage seems a bit higher, but I'm sure the same principal of cheap materials being a poor value still holds true.

I'm entering my high season, so if I want a sail now, I'm better off buying one. I think I can use what I have for a bit. That will give me time to maybe find a deal on one, or build one next winter.

Bacon does have some sails of interest, too.

Thanks for the Sail Bags idea!
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Old 13-02-2021, 10:42   #11
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayakerChuck View Post
Thanks!

After pricing genoas, I just might build one. I own a canvas shop and have the right machines, work space, and most of the tools. For a main, the savings is minimal, so I'd rather just buy one. For a big genny, the difference is close to a full boat buck.

Good fabric is always worth it. The cost of materials, at least for dacrons, is less than half of the cost of a sail. In the canvas biz, materials are roughly 20 to 30% of the total. With sails, the percentage seems a bit higher, but I'm sure the same principal of cheap materials being a poor value still holds true.

I'm entering my high season, so if I want a sail now, I'm better off buying one. I think I can use what I have for a bit. That will give me time to maybe find a deal on one, or build one next winter.

Bacon does have some sails of interest, too.

Thanks for the Sail Bags idea!
You do have an Assem. that's in good shape as an interim sail. As long as it's heavy enough, I'd use that until you can build your proper headsail. I'm not a sail maker but from what I've seen it appears that many of the seams are curved which could make things a bit tricky but if you have the equipment and space then go for it - don't scrimp on the materials.
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Old 13-02-2021, 12:56   #12
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayakerChuck View Post
After pricing genoas, I just might build one. I own a canvas shop and have the right machines, work space, and most of the tools. For a main, the savings is minimal, so I'd rather just buy one. For a big genny, the difference is close to a full boat buck.
Disclaimer: I am neither a professional canvas product producer nor a sailmaker.

But I do a lot of my own (amateur) canvas work with a surprisingly high success rate. I would never even consider trying to make a genoa or any other sail for that matter. Sailmakers have very sophisticated software to place the draft in the right spot and manage several other elements that are not “flat plane” features.

Whilst I wouldn’t want to insult your manufacturing capabilities, making a sail and making a canvas awning are two different worlds. It’s a little like “I own an automotive workshop. After pricing Teslas, I think I’ll just build my own”.
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Old 13-02-2021, 13:10   #13
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
Disclaimer: I am neither a professional canvas product producer nor a sailmaker.

But I do a lot of my own (amateur) canvas work with a surprisingly high success rate. I would never even consider trying to make a genoa or any other sail for that matter. Sailmakers have very sophisticated software to place the draft in the right spot and manage several other elements that are not “flat plane” features.

Whilst I wouldn’t want to insult your manufacturing capabilities, making a sail and making a canvas awning are two different worlds. It’s a little like “I own an automotive workshop. After pricing Teslas, I think I’ll just build my own”.
Maybe it isn't such a mystery or difficult task.

Many years ago my first real sailmaking project was a racing mainsail for my boat. I read some books about draft and draft placement, angle of entry, exit, roach luff curve, etc.

Then I did a design of all the panels using a spreadsheet. I used the graphing capabilities of the speadsheet to emulate a cad/cam picture to visualize the shape. There were 52 panels on that sail. I built it in the basement of the yacht club. it took about 80 hours. I used my Sailrite machine. The fabic was all high tech laminates which I ordered from Baindridge, Dimension Polyant, and Challenge

That sail was very successful (except for the home built graphite battens I tried to use) and we won many races with it. We took it cruising and eventially it deteriorated and was last seen as an awning at a rigging shop in Raffell's Marina.

I made a few sails after that, main and genoa for a smaller boat, spinnaker for a 40' er. And many repairs.

Now I just do basic designs and let sail factories in Asia build the sails for myself and my friends.

It is not rocket science. Just do it.
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Old 13-02-2021, 15:42   #14
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Thumbs up for mainsail first. needed for balance and good windward performance and ability to reef in strong winds and still go to windward.
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Old 13-02-2021, 16:46   #15
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Re: Replace Main or Genny first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CassidyNZ View Post
Disclaimer: I am neither a professional canvas product producer nor a sailmaker.

But I do a lot of my own (amateur) canvas work with a surprisingly high success rate. I would never even consider trying to make a genoa or any other sail for that matter. Sailmakers have very sophisticated software to place the draft in the right spot and manage several other elements that are not “flat plane” features.

Whilst I wouldn’t want to insult your manufacturing capabilities, making a sail and making a canvas awning are two different worlds. It’s a little like “I own an automotive workshop. After pricing Teslas, I think I’ll just build my own”.
Yep, I suspect he'll need to disassemble his old sail and use the pieces as templates.
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