Removable Cutter Stay vs Solent Stay

[Panope]

This post will have limited applicability as my rig is vastly different than most.

I fly this nylon drifter (blue) either down low on the wire forestay or (in combination with the working jib) up high at the masthead (see pic).

There is no outer forestay. I just hank (bronze) the drifter to the fall of an Amsteel halyard. I belay (with no mechanical advantage) the halyard while the mainsail is luffing. There is no backstay so when the mainsail fills, the peak halyard (the one that lifts the aft end of the gaff) bends the mast a touch and keeps the outer forestay reasonably tight. Works fine for light air.

This drifter is only 180 sq. feet. I suppose I larger sail would be unmanageable using this "hanked to the fall of a halyard" technique.

My sail maker says that the bronze hanks work fine on synthetic stays as long as the hanks are never used on wire as the wire will roughen the surface of the hank. I am breaking the rule and will replace the Amsteel halyard (about $120) as needed.

Steve

[UNCIVILIZED]

One "trick" which I forgot to mention, is that you can "paint" the spectra with Maxi-Jacket. Or the new & improved version of Maxi-Jacket.
They're coatings developed to be put onto the high tech cores of stripped down racing boat halyards, to increase their wear/chafe resistance. So I figure they'd be just fine on an improvised textile headstay like we're discussing.
In addition, there are a couple of other coatings out there designed to improve the performance of various highly loaded lines on yachts. Do a bit of reading on rope manufacturers websites, & rigging suppliers like www.APSltd.com or www.Layline.com & you'll find'em.

[nuku34]

I recently added a Solent stay to my NZ designed Cavalier 32 (10m) masthead rigged sloop with single spreader, cap shrouds and fore and aft lowers.
I already had a removable (at the deck end) storm jib stay which connects to the mast just above the spreaders. I use the spin pole topping lift as the halyard. This is for a very small true storm jib which does not overlap the forward lowers. I’ve had it up in 45+kts with the storm trysail (only 2 reefs in small 70’s style main).
I have 150% and 135% genoas for the roller furler on the forestay, but I absolutely refuse to use either of them “reefed” when on the wind. Besides the terrible shape, this is a sail killer even with foam luffs, which I don’t have. On the wind, the 135% genoa is good with full main to about 20kts. Cav 32’s are very stiff boats! In my sailing area, New Zealand, 20+ kts is not uncommon.
My boat came with a hardly used #3 jib with a short luff with clew just forward of the fore lowers. This sail had luff tape for the furler.
I don’t know about you, but doing a short-handed jib change in 20+knots with taped sails in any kind of seaway on a 10m boat is NOT fun.
To cover the 20-35kts wind range, I added a removable Solent stay and changed the #3 jib to hanks. My rigger said that to avoid running backs, if the mast section is fairly robust, the Solent tang can be 6% of the mast length below the masthead. In my case that worked out to 660mm. I have deck opening locker for the anchor chain, and the deck tang for the storm jib is located just aft of that. Its about 1m behind the forestay stem attachment and heavily attached to a full bulkhead. I use that tang for both the storm jib stay and the Solent stay. Both stays live normally wound around the forward lowers, and when deployed, attach to the deck tang with a turnbuckle.The Solent stay is not parallel to the forestay, but that doesn’t really matter. There was already a spare jib halyard so I’ve used that, with a slight modification, for the Solent jib. The clew of the sail is just aft of the foreward lower and sheets between it and the cap shroud. When reaching, I re-lead the sheet outside the cap shroud.
I’m totally happy with this rig. The boat sails perfectly balanced with 1 reef in the main up to 30kts. Between 30 and 40kts that I’d probably either throw in a 2nd reef or go to storm jib + storm trysail depending on the sea state.
The main thing for me is not doing jib changes on the furler in shitty weather. I’ve raced heaps on big full-race boats with foils on the forestay, and yes, with a full 6-8 person crew its not a big deal to do a sail change on the wind with a twin groove foil. On my 12m “Joshua“ cutter ketch with big flush deck, we did 2 handed furler jib changes offshore with plenty of sea room, but we did them going downwind and had the flush deck to deal with the sail after it came out of the furler.

[nuku34]

A further consideration:
Besides the mast tang position in relation to the need for running backstays, the OP will have to consider the shape of the Solent sail.
If the luff is too long in relation to the foot, (too high an aspect ratio) the sail will not set properly. The leech will hook in and the sail shape will resemble a tube. Either 1) lengthen the foot (but that might be a problem with clew position too far aft and chafe on the shrouds), 2) shorten the luff of the sail (it doesn’t have to be full hoist in relation to the stay length), 3) put battens in the sail (if you carry the un-hoisted sail in a saussage bag on deck this is not a problem).

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by nuku34

A further consideration:
Besides the mast tang position in relation to the need for running backstays, the OP will have to consider the shape of the Solent sail.
If the luff is too long in relation to the foot, (too high an aspect ratio) the sail will not set properly. The leech will hook in and the sail shape will resemble a tube. Either 1) lengthen the foot (but that might be a problem with clew position too far aft and chafe on the shrouds), 2) shorten the luff of the sail (it doesn’t have to be full hoist in relation to the stay length), 3) put battens in the sail (if you carry the un-hoisted sail in a saussage bag on deck this is not a problem).

What has the sail’s aspect ratio to do with its shape? We have very high aspect sails and don’t see any of those issues. When have you seen these kind of problems.

[nuku34]

Re high aspect sails: I'm referencing normal Dacron, not hi-tech sails here.

If you are talking about mainsails, then high aspect ratio sails are not a big problem as the clew position is always fixed by its attachment to the boom. So both the lateral and the fore and aft position of the clew is fixed as is the head and the tack. And the shape of a mainsail is constrained by battens (especially full length battens) so the leach of the sail can't curve in. I'm not talking here about batten-less hollow-leach in the mast furling mains which everyone knows have a terrible shape.



On a jib its a different story. The clew's position is not fixed, it can move around with changes of wind strength, so the foot and leach tensions can vary a lot which will influence the shape of the sail. Also,jib stays sag inwardly and that affects the shape of the jib making them more baggy. On a narrow sail, this sag will cause more baggyness then in a lower aspect ratio sail. If the jib has battens, then yes, higher aspect ratios can be used without a big problem.



If you think I'm full of BS, you should ask a sailmaker or read any good book on sail design.