Reefing with Bat Cars - where is the leech cringle?

[Jordan]

Hello!

I'm getting a new mainsail made by Far East Sails.

My old (current) main was recut from bigger sail and is a bad example to use... it's too small and the battens are angled strangely, etc.

The boom on my boat is basically horizontal.

When I've got a reef pulled in, the Fredericksen bat cars stack up quite high, which means that the reef tack cringle is 3 feet higher than the actual tack (to accommodate the maxinum stack at the 3rd reef).

If the leech reef cringles are at the same height as the luff cringles (i.e. parallel to the foot), then when i pull in a reef either the boom will be angled up or the clew will be 3 feet above the boom (which isn't ideal for sail trim).

The obvious solution is to move the leech cringles lower than the luff cringles, i.e. not parallel to the boom.

Is this what other people have?

Thanks!
Jordan

[Jim Cate]

Having the boom angle up a bit isn't a bad thing... I've always asked sailmakers to be sure that this happens. Helps keep the boom out of the water and away from my head! If the stack of batcars is really high, it might get excessive, but I've never experienced this myself.

Jim

[907Juice]

I have the same issue with my boat. Well put question and I’ll be waiting for answers.

Juice

[Seaslug Caravan]

You haven't said how you have your slab reefing set up.

Sounds like you aren't set up to drag the clew reef point lower than the car stack.

Let Skip show you how he does it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er9iw7q_E_8

[Snowpetrel]

Yeah, I use a jackline to slack the luff enough so the tack ends up lower than the cars. You also don't need to pull the clew all the way down to the boom, and sometimes trying to pull the clew dpwn to the boom can nip sailcloth and caise chafe.

[belizesailor]

What kind of boat?

Its common on cats for the aft end of the boom to angle up when reefed.

[Jordan]

Quasar is a Catana C48. The foot length is just over 6m. The luff cringles have rings with webbing and the luff has in-boom reefing lines... basically just like Skip Novaks boat (except he has normal luff slides not bat cars, so his luff cringles go way down).

The problem I've got with angling the boom up is it makes the boom unreachable from the coachroof/catwalk. It also makes the lazy jacks the wrong shape. These are problems when I pull the main down without taking the reef out.

This might sound nit-picky but I'm single-handing so anything I can do to simply the process is good.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Yeah, I use a jackline to slack the luff enough so the tack ends up lower than the cars.

How does the jackline work with the battens? I've got full battens which attach to the bat cars via stainless ball-joints.

Jordan

[Jordan]

It just occurred to me that if I have the reefing cringles placed just below the battens, I can make the intermediate cars use jacklines. This would let me pull the reef cringle much farther down.

[Joli]

Bringing the reef tack down too the gooseneck is dependant on where it falls between the cars. If it isn't half way between cars the tack may end up at the car stack position thus the clew will be the same height. Maybe post some pictures?

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Jordan

It just occurred to me that if I have the reefing cringles placed just below the battens, I can make the intermediate cars use jacklines. This would let me pull the reef cringle much farther down.

Yep, thats how it's normally done. In fact if the reef tack is positioned just under halfway between the batcar and an intermediate car the jacklines may not be needed at all.

[Kestrahl]

Normally on modern cruising catamarans the reefs are positioned so the boom doesn't lift a whole lot as there is no need to.

The reason for the traditional boom lift when reefing on mono-hulls is to prevent the boom hitting the water in gale conditions. The booms are often so high from the water on modern mono-hulls its not such a issue.

Normally the reef positions are designed in conjunction with the battens and intermediate cars so they are half way between. There is no problem to have the leech press-rings lower than the luff if it came to that.

Your sailmaker would be able to advise you about all this, if you were using a good one.

[Jordan]

After looking closely, I don't think I can get the luff tight if I pull the reef cringle down next to the bat cars... there is just too much hardware in the way.

When I asked the sail maker about lowering the leech cringles with respect to the luff cringles, at first he said he'd never heard of it. Later he said he talked to his people and they said no problem.

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

There is no problem to have the leech press-rings lower than the luff if it came to that.

Your sailmaker would be able to advise you about all this, if you were using a good one.

It's good to hear someone confirm that this isn't a crazy idea

I have 100% confidence that FarEast sails is going to make exactly what I order, but there's a limit to what they can do 18,000km away. They are, however, at least 2/3 the price of everyone else I talked to.

[Kestrahl]

All other catamarans (and monohulls) pull the luff down not far off the boom and next to the stacked up sail and it isn't a issue. The other problem with having the luff reef ring up high is it will transfer a lot of load to the car above it that is supposed to be going on the reef ring. Normally the pull on reef ring should be slightly diagonal (rather than vertical).
You get what you pay for with sails most of the time.

[soultime]

Hello Jordan,

I just read your thread reg. your problem.
We recently ordered a new mainsail with fat head and different reefing points for our Catana from Far East Sail . Unfortunately it has been delivered with a wrong leech lenghth and other missings although we sent very exact and correct datas in the first place.
I just want to point out to double check all the needs for your sail, especially when ordering a more sophisticated sail, before you set your deal with Far East Sails.
Rgds
SoulTime