Pros Aloft Without A Safety Line

[Benz]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

That theory is bs. Safety is recursive and risk is totally non discriminatory. It doesen't care how expert you are.

Try using your argument in court. You'll be labelled as either incompetent or negligent.

X being an unknown factor and a spurt being a drip under pressure.

The flaw with your sort of nanny-state reasoning is that no amount of safety gear will fix incompetence. Having spent several decades in the rockclimbing and sailing worlds, I can testify that the experience and competence to judge each situation and take measures accordingly is far safer than a blanket "No one should ever go anywhere without X" (take for example nearly any OSHA rule). I'm not against safety--I'm against taking safety to absurd extremes by making inflexible rules and attempting to apply them universally.
There are those who should never go up masts--they're just too stupid or careless. Then there are those who are able, confident and experienced enough to be safe in what for others would be a hairy situation. You should just stand back and let them work.

[double u]

yep Benz, correct!

[john61ct]

Just do the watching from a spot where they only break their own neck if they turn out to not be so competent.

[double u]

it is impossible (by definition) to entirely eliminat all risk. if anything I am careful & riskaverse bordering on the paranoid - & that was why I always avoided increasing risk with any number of additional ropes. the ability to climb up a foresta/rolled-up genny did more for my security aloft than additonal ropes would have done (with my turks tending them)
imho pulling somebody aloft with an electric winch, line in the selftailer - now that's a risk! just imagine the solenoid sticking...
the jerks when letting the guy down that I saw on other boats, because thre were umpteen lines to be tended - that was risky
I don't know how much time you spent aloft, John61ct...
(& I don't know if now, nearly 20 years later, I'll still be able to climb up hand over hand with the rope only tailed - we'll see)

[double u]

I get this right now:
https://www.practical-sailor.com/blo...s=p_Blog042618

[ArmyDaveNY]

This is slightly higher than a mast, and he is free climbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlVxRdTnNqI

[jtsailjt]

This has been a very good discussion resulting in me reexaming what I've been doing and deciding I'd like to use a second, fixed halyard with an ascender to catch me in case my primary halyard fails due to mechanical or operator error. I'd considered that before but this discussion forced me to think more seriously about and decide it's something I need to do.

In the past I've just used my internally run spinnaker halyard tied to my bosuns chair and then snap shackled to itself, so I have complete confidence in that attachment. Also, my halyards are in good condition and since my spinnaker halyard is inside the mast, if the block at the top of the mast fails, I'd only drop a foot or so. I also have about a 4' strap with a big carabiner on it attached to my bosuns chair that I wrap around the mast , detaching and reattaching as I pause at each spreader.

I think the area with the greatest potential for danger lies with the crew member in the cockpit who is operating the electric winch. My wife is almost always the one who operates the electric winch and one of the first times she pulled me up the mast she took a phone call on her cell phone and also texted someone because she was bored and thought it would be OK since I didn't seem to be doing anything from her perspective. I impressed upon her that to feel safe up there we needed some ground rules and those would include NO interaction with anyone else while I'm up the mast. If someone comes by in their dinghy or along the dock and wants to chat, she just shakes her head and points to me up the mast to let them know why chatting will have to wait until later. The cell phone now gets put away before we begin and stays put away until I'm back on deck. I need to know she's looking out for my safety ALL the time I'm up there. She also religiously uses the rope clutch so never has to rely on the self tailing part of the winch. One thing I also have her do once I'm about 10 above the deck on the way up is to make a loop in the halyard and tie a knot in it so in case she somehow forgets the rope clutch and the halyard gets loose the knot that's way too big to pass through the rope clutch will stop me before I hit the deck.

But I think that probably the most important device we use that contributes to safety while aloft is our voice activated headset interphone system. We can clearly understand each other without shouting so there's less chance of a misunderstanding, and I give her a running commentary about what I'm seeing and doing so she feels like more a part of what's going on and doesn't get bored. She also can verbally tell me what she's seeing and if she notices another boats wake coming our way, etc. Also, as almost invariably happens, when I need a tool or screw or part I forgot about or broke while aloft, when she's down inside the boat trying to find it I can describe exactly what she's looking for and where I think it is and she can tell me what she's seeing, etc. So, as useful as the interphone is while anchoring, which is the primary reason we originally got it, we absolutely love what it does for us while I'm up the mast. It makes communication much easier and increases safety by avoiding boredom and allowing us both to get the other to "double check" what each of us is doing. We got them a couple of years ago and I think they were only about $150 complete with a padded case to keep them in. I'd encourage anyone who doesn't already have some to consider it.

For working at the top of the mast, a pair of those folding aluminum mast steps are a very nice addition. No only do they allow you to work up higher, it's MUCH more comfortable to be able to shift your position and take your weight off the chair and to flex your legs if you've been up there awhile and it's getting uncomfortable. I added two of them to my last boat and thought they were great but I haven't gotten around to adding them to this boat yet, but it's on my list of things to do.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by Benz

The flaw with your sort of nanny-state reasoning is that no amount of safety gear will fix incompetence. Having spent several decades in the rockclimbing and sailing worlds, I can testify that the experience and competence to judge each situation and take measures accordingly is far safer than a blanket "No one should ever go anywhere without X" (take for example nearly any OSHA rule). I'm not against safety--I'm against taking safety to absurd extremes by making inflexible rules and attempting to apply them universally.
There are those who should never go up masts--they're just too stupid or careless. Then there are those who are able, confident and experienced enough to be safe in what for others would be a hairy situation. You should just stand back and let them work.

A voice of reason in the wilderness!

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Benz

The flaw with your sort of nanny-state reasoning is that no amount of safety gear will fix incompetence. Having spent several decades in the rockclimbing and sailing worlds, I can testify that the experience and competence to judge each situation and take measures accordingly is far safer than a blanket "No one should ever go anywhere without X" (take for example nearly any OSHA rule). I'm not against safety--I'm against taking safety to absurd extremes by making inflexible rules and attempting to apply them universally.
There are those who should never go up masts--they're just too stupid or careless. Then there are those who are able, confident and experienced enough to be safe in what for others would be a hairy situation. You should just stand back and let them work.

I agree 100%.

[double u]

jtsailjt: please brand & model of intercom!!!

[double u]

to put these in-port "adventures in height" a little bit in perspective:
running downwind in the trades under selfsteering, genny poled out one side, jib on spinnacker-halyard set flying & poled out the other side, when the time came to take down the jib I discovered that not only had some hanks of the jib caught the forstay the genny was set on (no furler), so it was impossible to lower only one sail, to boot the sheave of the spinnacker halyard had collapsed jamming the rope. there was nothing for it but go up in the bosuns chair as soon as you please because the wind was picking up & open the shackle on the spi-halyard...
the rolling of a 6t 37footer gets much accentuated once 70kg pass the first set of spreaders...she had a masthead rig, btw...(i was a younger man then, & the lady pregnant...). there was no question of muckingaround with extra ropes & what not, & above the first spreaders I was hanging on with everything I had anyway...

[double u]

thsi pic (from another occasion!) shows view & setup

[Meacenas]

Ahh, back in the days when men were men and clawing at an acre of heavy flapping canvas of the topsail on a windjammer with only a footrope under one foot was a mans life at sea.

[double u]

...not quite, meacenas, not quite...(I seem to recall squeezing the sap out of the aluminium mast with my grip, the very sap...)

[billknny]

So much depends on your definition of "Professional." If you mean someone who gets paid to do rigging work, then pretty much anything goes. They are ALL experts and need no safety gear. They are a dime a dozen, and the good news is: they are disposable. Just like motorcyclists who don't use helmets. They preform a valuable community service... organ doners are in short supply.

It's only amateurs who need sissy safety stuff.

On the other hand if by "professional" you mean someone dedicated to doing a good and safe job... those are a lot less common--in the rigging business and everywhere else.

Like this news story about a "professional" rigger who went aloft to rig safety lines for OTHER people, and ended up as a sidewalk pizza... Ooops. Can't happen to ME!

Rigger dies in pylon plunge while installing fall arrest lines | Construction Enquirer