Preventer Rigging?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

you are a much better man than I

actually, with your boat you probably usually sail hotter downwind angles to get better vmg.

I have to as my spreaders only allow the boom out partly. For a run my only choice is a symmetic that I keep hidden for the end of times

[Dockhead]

OK, so I've digested all the helpful comments on here, for which I thank.

On the leader question -- to get at the end of the leader to rig a preventer with the boom already out, on my boat, would require going forward to the mast, on my boat, and climbing up. On my all furling rig, I avoid with prejudice going to the mast in a seaway wherever possible. I don't think a leader will do anything for me worth this, especially since I am very much accustomed already to rigging the preventer before the boom goes out and don't perceive this as a problem.

So I think I'll splice a loop of dyneema through the end of the boom, and clip on my preventers to that. I'll splice snap shackles to the end of those.

So the remaining questions are what rope to use, and how to store them?

Do I coil them up and redeploy the the preventer every time I gybe? Or should I have two of them permanently rigged somehow? I suppose I if I rig them through turning blocks aft, I could even keep them ready for use without getting out of the cockpit, with both ends led into the cockpit. Clip on one end, and lead the other to a winch, in order to put into action. Maybe bungee cord them to the lifelines when not going downwind?


As to rope -- I have used 12mm double braid for years, and have gotten tired of the bulk and weight of a 40 meter coil of that. But after all the discussion in this thread about the forces which could be imparted to the preventer, I guess I shouldn't downsize it. Dyneema would be less stretchy and maybe not so good.

What do others use? I'm dithering on this a bit as I've never subjected a preventer, ever, to any big forces, as I have never dipped a boom, ever, and never, ever, leave enough slack in the preventer to allow the boom to snatch across. But reading some of these posts, I wonder if it would not be hubricious to assume that it will always be so.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Chris66

A good system has been designed for Morgan's Cloud, you can get the details from their website. As i understand it, they have a permanent line running both sides of the boom with an eye at the forward end. It is held in place with a piece of shock cord until required. When required it is connected via a shackle to a line running forward to a block near the bow and back through a clutch to a winch. The connection is performed easily at the base of the mast and all lines are rigged permanently. When it is time to jybe, the leeward preventer is removed and reattached to the boom, the jybe is executed and the new leeward line is attached. It makes sense to me but there is more detail on their website.

I think we saw Mogans Cloud set up and that prompted us to do similar for the main boom and we leave it always rigged. The foreboom is rigged each trip and requires some fancy footwork to prepare to jibe.


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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

I think we saw Mogans Cloud set up and that prompted us to do similar for the main boom and we leave it always rigged. The foreboom is rigged each trip and requires some fancy footwork to prepare to jibe.


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Having never owned a ketch or other split rig, it somewhat boggles my mind how much rigging is involved. Two booms to prevent!


It just occurred to me that if I make up two preventers, the one not in use can be used as the spin pole foreguy. That would be really handy and a good reason to try to figure out how to store the line in place.

Still musing about what kind of rope to use, however. 10mm Dyneema?

[Kenomac]

I think I'll rig a new preventer setup this year. Two permanent lines stored on the boom running the length of it, one end at the boom end, the other end with clip shackles on the mast end. Then I can simply detach the mast end while the boom is out over the water and attach it to the preventer line which is run back to a winch. I've seen this setup on other Oysters.

I presently use the method you describe with the loop at the end of the mast. It doesn't work very well. It's difficult for me to attach or disengage the preventer whilst standing on the aft deck, reaching up above my head with a rolling sea. I have nothing to hold onto, and sometimes the boom jerks me suddenly to the side. I've almost been launched overboard a couple of times.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I think I'll rig a new preventer setup this year. Two permanent lines stored on the boom running the length of it, one end at the boom end, the other end with clip shackles on the mast end. Then I can simply detach the mast end while the boom is out over the water and attach it to the preventer line which is run back to a winch. I've seen this setup on other Oysters.

I presently use the method you describe with the loop at the end of the mast. It doesn't work very well. It's difficult for me to attach or disengage the preventer whilst standing on the aft deck, reaching up above my head with a rolling sea. I have nothing to hold onto, and sometimes the boom jerks me suddenly to the side. I've almost been launched overboard a couple of times.

I have similar problems tying a bowline over my head, in a seaway. I know there are people who can tie a bowline with one hand, but I'm not one of them. As a result, I have no hand to use to hold on with, which is just stupid.

I'm hoping that the snap shackle will make it possible to connect it with one hand, which would solve that problem as far as I'm concerned, at least for my boat Your boom might be higher than mine.

[transmitterdan]

Tying a bowline one handed may not be the best idea if the load can suddenly snatch away from you. Your hand might get trapped in the knot and then you are in trouble.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Tying a bowline one handed may not be the best idea if the load can suddenly snatch away from you. Your hand might get trapped in the knot and then you are in trouble.

Yes, I was not considering one-handed bowlines.

[Kenomac]

I stopped using the boline and now use a snap shackle. I still have a problem with the swinging boom while attaching or disengagement.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I stopped using the boline and now use a snap shackle. I still have a problem with the swinging boom while attaching or disengagement.

You're one step ahead of me.

I'm thinking your boom may be higher than mine, and that this might work better for me. I will splice a loop of single braid dyneema through the loop at the end of the boom, and leave that dangling down (maybe a velcro attachment to get it out of the way when not needed). While the boom is still sheeted in hard, and not swinging, I will hang onto the main sheet with one hand, and snap-shackle the preventer on with the other. As I imagine it, it should be quite ok, on my boat anyway, and in any case vastly better than trying to tie a bowline upside down without a hand to stabilize myself with. Anyway, I'll give it a try.

Do you have preventers permanently rigged, or do you coil it up every time?

What kind of rope do you use for the preventer? 12mm double braid?


P.S. preventers being primary running rigging, why aren't they considered in the deck plans of boats? Why do we have to improvise them? Makes no sense to me at all.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I will splice a loop of single braid dyneema through the loop at the end of the boom, and leave that dangling down .

That's my setup almost, a line with a soft eye round the boom long enough to reach the cockpit with the boom out a bit. Then when gybing you don't have to worry about the preventers, just before gybing detach the first one then get the boom over then harden up a little for a moment while new preventer gets attached. All from the cockpit. Works a treat.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You're one step ahead of me.

I'm thinking your boom may be higher than mine, and that this might work better for me. I will splice a loop of single braid dyneema through the loop at the end of the boom, and leave that dangling down (maybe a velcro attachment to get it out of the way when not needed). While the boom is still sheeted in hard, and not swinging, I will hang onto the main sheet with one hand, and snap-shackle the preventer on with the other. As I imagine it, it should be quite ok, on my boat anyway, and in any case vastly better than trying to tie a bowline upside down without a hand to stabilize myself with. Anyway, I'll give it a try.

Do you have preventers permanently rigged, or do you coil it up every time?

What kind of rope do you use for the preventer? 12mm double braid?


P.S. preventers being primary running rigging, why aren't they considered in the deck plans of boats? Why do we have to improvise them? Makes no sense to me at all.

I've been doing it exactly the way you've described for the past three seasons. When the boat is moving, you won't be able to hang onto the sheet tackle with the boom in tight. It acts like a human sling shot as it jerks back and forth with the weight of the boom behind it. So now I'm changing over to a way I can access a line attached to the end of the boom from a safe distance. I've almost fallen over a couple of times while holding onto the sheet or just trying to keep my balance whilst reaching up to clip on. When I get some time over the next two days, I'll try to describe a better way to do it. Or, send me your phone number via PM and I'll give you a call.

Ken

[SVNeko]

Are you guys neat freaks? Is that why you won't leave it rigged and at the mast? Swinging from the end of a boom at sea seems to me a high price to pay to avoid a permament line running along the side of the boom.

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[s/v Jedi]

Safety seems to not being factored in. Tying or clipping anything to the end of the boom while underway is a no-no. Using snap shackles is a no-no as well: I thought by now everybody can make good soft shackles? Using snap shackles in a shockload environment, as well as on the end of a boom that can swing back and forth during manouvers or incidents is a recipe for disaster.

[s/v Jedi]

p.s. When we are sailing downwind in the trades, we also have full preventers rigged to both booms, without using any tails at the boom end. The reason is that they are used all the time and the splice between the short tail and the rest annoys the h@ck out if me when it hangs up on something again.