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GILow · 30-05-2019, 20:14

Hi all,

About to replace the standing rigging. The rigger is recommending the open frame style of turnbuckle, rather than my existing bottle style.

I've not heard of problems with them, and he seems to know his stuff, but I thought I would check in here and see if anyone has a preference and why.

(Rig is constructed from 10 mm stays, with 8 mm intermediates, shortish mast at 50 feet, cutter rigged masthead sloop, in case any of that makes a difference.)

Matt

Stu Jackson · 30-05-2019, 20:18

Matt

Do NOT touch bottles. They trap water and rot & rust inside, where ya can't see. A friend lost his forestay in the middle of SF Bay in the summer to one, and when they took my rigging apart the very next week, guess why?!?, one sheared completely. It was my backstay, emphasized on WAS.

Glad you asked.

No brainer.

**Jim Cate** · 30-05-2019, 20:42

We've used both over the years, and have a mix on I-2. On our Yankee 30 we had Nav-Tec screws and they had some cracking at 10 years. Not happy and would never use again. Since then we've had Ronstan closed screws on both I one and two and have had no corrosion issues at all. Being that the bodies are bronze, I see little chance for corrosion. The screws are s/s with all its issues, but they can be inspected.

Dunno what brand of screws Stu had that failed so badly. His boat is a Catalina, and C uses a lot of Garhauer hardware, but I'm not sure of the rigging screws. At any rate, my experience with a lot of miles on Ronstan closed body screws is ok.

Jim

RaymondR · 30-05-2019, 21:11

I had all closed body on my previous boat, think they were Weaver Marine from NZ. I used to have a lot of trouble getting them undone. They were double brass barrel devices with the inner barrel LH threaded on the outside and RH on the inside for the SS fitting on the wire. I learned to adjust them so that the SS screw was not buried into the brass inner barrel and after that had no more problems.

GILow · 30-05-2019, 21:27

OK, a mixed bag here so far.

For the record, mine are all the bottle sort, just getting on 20 years old. The rigger briefly inspected them while he was measuring up for the quote and found no obvious problems. I recently unscrewed them all because I had to lift the mast to replace the deck, and they all looked ok. We identified the best of the lot to keep as spares, and they all looked spotless really, no sense of their age at all.

Maybe the issue is one of WHO made them. I don't know who made mine, I've never thought to check. The rigger may be able to tell me. If I can find out I will report back.

But the main thing here is that nobody so far has described having trouble with the open frame sort, which is reassuring. I have no reason to doubt the rigger, he comes well recommended by people I trust, and given Stu's experience, I can see why he might recommend the open frame type. So unless someone comes up with specific problems I will be happy to follow his advice.

Matt

Stu Jackson · 30-05-2019, 22:31

Those were on my C25, not this boat. Sea... something or other, not Garhauer. Old and small they were, matyes...

**GordMay** · 31-05-2019, 04:10

Back in 2009, CF members polled 28 to 1 in favour of open body turnbuckles (over closed body).
➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...les-30680.html

No matter what type of turnbuckle you are adjusting, make certain that the wire, rod or whatever type of stay material you may have, does NOT turn, or is in any way able to become distorted. This can lead to shroud failure!

Mike OReilly · 31-05-2019, 05:56

Another small datapoint here:

My previous boat (Grampian 34) had the bottle style turnbuckles. I think they were original to the boat. My current boat has the open style, but are likely not original. The former boat was freshwater only. The current boat has gone back and forth, although mostly salt water.

Neither caused me any troubles (so far), but I really do prefer the open style. I find them easier to manipulate, and I really like being able to see and inspect what is going on in there.

AKA-None · 31-05-2019, 12:49

I like the open style so I can look at the threads and how far it’s set

**TrentePieds** · 31-05-2019, 17:25

I've lost a forestay on a Grampian 30 (original rig) due to crevice corrosion of S/S bottle screw tensioner. Bottle screws are IMO another case of builders favouring "pretty" over "seamanlike".

So where choice exists, replace bottle screw tensioners with open frame tensioners. Can be done one by one. No law sez all the tensioners on a particular vessel need to be all the same kind. Common sense (and ordinary caution) must rule.

TrentePieds

GILow · 31-05-2019, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Back in 2009, CF members polled 28 to 1 in favour of open body turnbuckles (over closed body).
➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...les-30680.html

No matter what type of turnbuckle you are adjusting, make certain that the wire, rod or whatever type of stay material you may have, does NOT turn, or is in any way able to become distorted. This can lead to shroud failure!

Gold from Gord... as always.

Thank you Gord, I didn't find that thread in my previous search. I couldn't figure out why until I re-ran the search just now. It turns out I searched on "turnbuckle", not "turnbuckles" in the title. Seems the search engine does not automatically search on plural forms.

**JPA Cate** · 01-06-2019, 14:51

For searches, generally, we use the CF Custom Google Search*, because it "figures out" what your idea means, and looks for it. The first CF Search is case sensitive and also requires an exact match.

* It is located about 5th in the Search Menu.

Ann

GILow · 01-06-2019, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

For searches, generally, we use the CF Custom Google Search*, because it "figures out" what your idea means, and looks for it. The first CF Search is case sensitive and also requires an exact match.

* It is located about 5th in the Search Menu.

Ann

After this experience I will remember to use that one instead.

billknny · 01-06-2019, 17:41

If there is a single reason to use a "bottle" style turnbuckle I don't know it. They are cheaper to make, because they can be easily machined from a solid billet, but that's not my problem.

Not everybody has a problem with them, but some people do. I had a closed body turnbuckle made of 304 SS (I tested it) that cracked. Fortunately I noted the problem before disaster struck. Bronze would certainly be better, but still, not a good idea.

I haven't seen any comments here that say that the closed style are BETTER... so go with the proper open style and sleep better.