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04-03-2020, 12:53
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Pearson 10M
Posts: 13
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New Sail Options
I purchased my first boat last season (Pearson 10M) and was able to get the season out of the cruising genoa it came with but it's pretty rotted out and needs to be replaced.
I got a quote from a local sail loft and it was a bit higher than I was expecting/hoping: $3400
Was looking for a few pieces of advice:
1. Is that a reasonable price/in line with the market? We only do coastal sailing, mostly day sails with 1-3 week or two week-long trips per year. Cloth type is C-Breeze 7.1oz, 135% Genoa so about 424 sq ft. in total
2. I have a new-ish Doyle Load Path Kevlar Genoa the previous owner bought for racing. I don't race much but have the sail so considering just using that. It doesn't have a uv strip, but looks like Sailrite sells a cover I can zip up over it. Question here, is this going to wear out quickly? I understand laminate sails to be a bit more delicate so curious about expected lifespan using this sail for our purposes.
3. Are used sails worth it? Was looking on Atlantic Used Sails and saw some I think would work ranging from $450-2200
4. Any other recommendations or things I'm not considering but should be?
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04-03-2020, 13:08
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#2
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,423
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Re: New Sail Options
Our Genoa is C Breeze made from Dupont Polyant dacron. Sort of silver quality cloth and a good choice for your needs as well as ours. However, the price is frankly ridiculous. That said, completely wrong time of year to order sails with Spring approaching. There would be big discounts late Autumn, but they are still taking the mickey. Our Genoa in C Breeze was £1400 in late 2011 for a 2012 delivery.
Have a look at this link and there are other on line quotes available.
https://resensails.eu/sail-prices-pearson-33
However, you have a laminate sail which is interesting. If you buy a new sail, when will you use the laminate? How about using this sail for the season with the sailrite cover and see how you go. It will fall apart at some point, but you may as well get some years out of it rather than stuffing in the bow or in the loft at home. When it does finally shred then consider a dacron replacement.
Some more light reading and I believe Mack Sails also have a page on material choice.
Sanders Sails: Materials | Sailmaking, Sailmakers, Yacht Marine Upholstery, Dinghies, Boat Design | Lymington, South Coast, Hampshire
What ever you do, get rid of the worn out genoa, a masthead rig needs a good genoa to make her move and provide the drive.
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04-03-2020, 13:08
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,642
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Re: New Sail Options
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaggamuffinBK
I purchased my first boat last season (Pearson 10M) and was able to get the season out of the cruising genoa it came with but it's pretty rotted out and needs to be replaced.
I got a quote from a local sail loft and it was a bit higher than I was expecting/hoping: $3400
Was looking for a few pieces of advice:
1. Is that a reasonable price/in line with the market? We only do coastal sailing, mostly day sails with 1-3 week or two week-long trips per year. Cloth type is C-Breeze 7.1oz, 135% Genoa so about 424 sq ft. in total
2. I have a new-ish Doyle Load Path Kevlar Genoa the previous owner bought for racing. I don't race much but have the sail so considering just using that. It doesn't have a uv strip, but looks like Sailrite sells a cover I can zip up over it. Question here, is this going to wear out quickly? I understand laminate sails to be a bit more delicate so curious about expected lifespan using this sail for our purposes.
3. Are used sails worth it? Was looking on Atlantic Used Sails and saw some I think would work ranging from $450-2200
4. Any other recommendations or things I'm not considering but should be?
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Used laminate sails are junk
Light wind sails are normally junk
Used high quality triradial Dacron or spectra sail are worth a look
Valuable sails to look at Are heavy weather sails
Working jib , # 4 , blast reacher ...
It’d not uncommon that these sails are ten years old and never been used in anger
They are probably worth 15 or 20 percent of new cost
Ask sailmakers, yacht brokers or put an add on the bulletin board of a good sailing club
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04-03-2020, 14:13
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Pearson 10M
Posts: 13
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Re: New Sail Options
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
Our Genoa is C Breeze made from Dupont Polyant dacron. Sort of silver quality cloth and a good choice for your needs as well as ours. However, the price is frankly ridiculous. That said, completely wrong time of year to order sails with Spring approaching. There would be big discounts late Autumn, but they are still taking the mickey. Our Genoa in C Breeze was £1400 in late 2011 for a 2012 delivery.
Have a look at this link and there are other on line quotes available.
https://resensails.eu/sail-prices-pearson-33
However, you have a laminate sail which is interesting. If you buy a new sail, when will you use the laminate? How about using this sail for the season with the sailrite cover and see how you go. It will fall apart at some point, but you may as well get some years out of it rather than stuffing in the bow or in the loft at home. When it does finally shred then consider a dacron replacement.
Some more light reading and I believe Mack Sails also have a page on material choice.
Sanders Sails: Materials | Sailmaking, Sailmakers, Yacht Marine Upholstery, Dinghies, Boat Design | Lymington, South Coast, Hampshire
What ever you do, get rid of the worn out genoa, a masthead rig needs a good genoa to make her move and provide the drive.
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Thank you, this is really helpful and brings up some great points. I feel vindicated in my distaste for the price and I didn't even think about the seasonality piece, but oh well.
Great question about what to do with the laminate anyways, I guess trot it out for the rare race we do participate in but might as well use what we have so I think the sleeve approach will get us a few seasons. This year we have some other big expenses/upgrades so postponing a sail investment is worthwhile and when it does finally go I can try to time my purchase for more advantageous seasonality.
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04-03-2020, 14:38
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,432
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Re: New Sail Options
Hello, RagamuffinBK,
This is kind of an indirect answer to your questions, but I think you need to phone around to a number of local lofts, tell them what you need for the sail to be able to do, ask them what cloth they would use, it's anticipated longevity, if possible look at the finish work they do on their sails, and compare prices. The $3400 tag seems high to me, if ten years ago you would have paid about $1800 (comparing Pete's 10 yr ago price in Pounds). It's probably good cloth if it's lasted Pete 10 yrs, and he says the sail shape is still good. Plain Dacron doesn't really last terribly well.
However, you do have a laminate genoa already. Why not use it and see "wot'll she do?" You will likely notice a profound increase in performance, if it is in good condition. If it comes apart on you, you're no worse off, no one is likely to want to buy a used laminate sail, especially if the little black dots are visible between the layers. If it is dot free, then might be worth covering.
Some of the used sail places rate their sails according to the life they think the sails have left in them. They can be a good buy, even if you have to have one cut down a bit. Obviously they are not the best choice, and there's a reason someone has discarded them, but if the money's not available now for a brand new top of the line sail, it can be an option. My Jim bought used sails before he started making his own. The thing is, though, that your dacron genoa sounds like it is fit for a sunshade, now, if that, so even a used one could be an improvement.
Probably the plan suggested above, to use the existing laminate sail up, and in the mean time save your shekels for a new one. As you may have surmised from my first paragraph, sail lofts vary in the quality of their finish work. The virtue of the local loft may be good finish work, but one reason to use a local loft is so they do the measuring, which assures they fix it if the sail doesn't come out right.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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04-03-2020, 14:48
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,154
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Re: New Sail Options
Your plan to use the kevlar sail for now seems logical to me. Meanwhile, I'd suggest getting a quote from other sailmakers, even "mail order" lofts, for price comparison would be cost free and informative.
Finally, the used sail approach is quite attractive for applications like yours. I'd suggest looking at Bacon in Annapolis. They have a large inventory of sails at all times, and their descriptions and ratings for the sails are honest and accurate in my experience (long ago to be honest). There are other used sail vendors as well, and amongst them surely a good fit will appear.
Whichever way you go, it will allow you to purchase a new sail at a time of year that offers some discount.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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