New Mainsail Sticks when Hoisting

[Peel]

I recently bought a new mainsail for my Contrast 33 sloop. The sail is Dacron with 4 full length batons. At the luff end of each baton is a baton box with a 10mm machine screw attached to a jaw and metal slug. As designed, this arrangement allows the slug to rotate vertically. All of the other slugs are nylon/Delrin, and sewn to the luff with webbing.

When I try to hoist the main all of the nylon slugs move with ease, but the metal ones jam in the slot. Pulling on the halyard "pops' them free, only to jam again 10-15 cm higher on the mast. This jamming also occurs when dousing.
I have a couple theories as to what's causing this, but thought I'd see if any of you have had a similar occurrence, and what you did to fix it.

Theories:
1: Metal slugs inherently aren't as smooth as nylon ones, and jamming is caused by any micro pitting/scratches that have occurred over the lifetime of my boat's 40 year old mast.

2: The fact that the metal slugs can rotate downward cause the top edge to catch and this is the source of the jamming. The nylon slugs, due to the way they are sewn on, cannot rotate in this manner.

I also thought it could have something to do with baton pressure, but I removed the batons completely and the results were the same.

Here are a couple of photos of the baton box, and the slug jamming at the mast slot.

[Calif.Ted]

I suspect baton pressure may be the problem, perhaps increasing pressure to see if that reduces the angle of the rotation. Change the angle of the dangle you could say.

[Jammer]

Ordinarily this is the sort of thing your sailmaker would take care of, unless your sailmaker is someone like eBay.

[SailingHarmonie]

Have you used a fully baton mainsail before on this mast? Those slides and ends are significantly sub-optimal for a full baton.

The successful full baton installs I have seen on internal slotted masts all have had cars that had (at least) TWO sliders per baton specifically to eliminate the kind of twisting you see that is causing you so much trouble.

You might want to read this...
https://www.sailmagazine.com/diy/taming-full-batten-mains

I agree, that this is the kind of problem that a full service sail loft should be helping you solve. Bargain lofts have their place, but changing the basic design of a sail (to full baton, for example) is not one of their strengths.

[anchorbend]

I had similar problem on my mainsail. When the slug twists in the sail track it makes it difficult to raise. I replaced the slugs at the batten ends, and two by the headboard.

https://www.sailrite.com/Slug-Allsli...kaAt2BEALw_wcB

These are very slippery because of the material they are made of and they have a longer internal slot to minimize the twist. I would also recommend that these arewebbed on the sail,They come in several sizes. I think this is the cheaper way to go. I think they are cheaper elsewhere.

[Kazamaran]

Looks to be too much articulation, likely the result of worn lug.

[Peel]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Ordinarily this is the sort of thing your sailmaker would take care of, unless your sailmaker is someone like eBay.

I am working with my sail loft on this, and they are not a fly-by-night operation, but a trusted local loft. I’m just seeing if the community has seen this before as well. The initial suggestion from the sailmaker didn’t solve the problem, and as my boat is a 2 hour drive from home, I’d like to go up next time with more than one possible solution in hand. As frustrating as the sail sticking is, it’s even more so spending a full day and tank of gas with no perceivable results.

[Peel]

Originally Posted by Kazamaran

Looks to be too much articulation, likely the result of worn lug.

Brand new sail, brand new slugs

[Peel]

Originally Posted by anchorbend

I had similar problem on my mainsail. When the slug twists in the sail track it makes it difficult to raise. I replaced the slugs at the batten ends, and two by the headboard.

https://www.sailrite.com/Slug-Allsli...kaAt2BEALw_wcB

These are very slippery because of the material they are made of and they have a longer internal slot to minimize the twist. I would also recommend that these arewebbed on the sail,They come in several sizes. I think this is the cheaper way to go. I think they are cheaper elsewhere.

Thanks. When I ordered the sail we tried out several slugs for fit, and I believe we tried these ones, but they wouldn’t fit through the gate in the mast. But getting another bunch of slugs and trying for fit isn’t a bad idea. If I find a few that fit I can attach a different one to each batten and see if there’s a difference in performance.

[wrwakefield]

I have two thoughts for remediation:

The cheapest/fastest thing to try is to coat the mast slot with McLube SailKote and try again.

Second is to install a Tides Strong Track on the mast. This always works, and is easily justified on an older mast that may be worn. [This was our approach. We can even reef the mainsail under load because of the lack of friction.]

Best wishes resolving the issue.

Cheers, Bill

[Tupaia]

Slides that terminate batten boxes usually have a metal pin. A Delrin only slide is unlikely to have sufficient strength to facilitate the articulation of the batten. Here is an example from Ronstan but there are many different types.

https://www.improducts.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/PNP281.jpg

[Peel]

So my sailmaker contacted Selden and they were able to look up the exact extrusion profile of my mast. I was amazed that they had records going back to at least 1985. They sent some slides with wheels that ride on the outside of the mast. They look a bit like hot wheels or matchbox cars. The slide can’t bind now, so hoist and dropping the main are a breeze.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

Second is to install a Tides Strong Track on the mast. This always works, and is easily justified on an older mast that may be worn. [This was our approach. We can even reef the mainsail under load because of the lack of friction.

I could not recommend a Strong sail track. I had one for a number of years. In our case it was a solution to a problem that didn't exist. I guess it worked okay- until it didn't. The sail jammed about 2/3 of the way down. Had to use a winch to get it down- thought I'd never do it. Could be that we have a sail (390 sq ft) that is larger than what the system is designed for. Regardless of size, it was starting to crack, I presume from UV exposure. Lasted about 12 years. A real bugger to remove with the mast stepped.

[Kazamaran]

The linear pull on the halyard and lug configuration is obviously creating a bind through its own motion up the mast. It appears once the sail weight and batons cantilever outward as the sail goes up, the pressure creates a lug tilt inside the mast track which is substantial enough to creat lots of unwanted friction. Exterior wheel sets really wouldn’t solve that because the bind is actually inside the track once it’s tilted. Question: once up, will the sail drop all the way down on its own once the halyard is released?

My rig has a captive bearing baton car arrangement on an exterior track. No matter what the sail is doing, the friction is on a bearing surface. It’s a ZSpar product. Or US Spar these days.

I know this doesn’t explain your issue but seems counter intuitive to me for a batton lug to be rigged to an internal lug arrangement because of all the forces trying to disrupt a smooth motion. Must be a hoot trying to raise or lower in high wind. Maybe an external track arrangement might be something worth looking at. I apologize if you’ve already gone over this. I’m just thinking out loud. Good luck. Ken