My mast was chopped off, what now??

[Pepe112]

Hi all, I'm new here. Just bought a S&S 36ft wooden 1710 of which the mast was chopped off at the base by the previous owner (he wanted to unstep it and couldn't get it out normally due to galvanic corrosion (alu and steel no good combo). I have 2 questions:

I'd prefer to postpone replacement of the existing rig, as it seems ok for sailing in front of the port and I'd like to smear out cost a bit. Are a few cm (5 max) less height going to cause big issues with the existing rig if I put it back once I've cleaned up the step plate?

And: my idea for cleaning up: a nylon insert, possibly with a drain into the bilge or sump box, held in place by a few simple steel lugs. See illustration:


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Any input, comments, schadenfreude about wooden boat owner problems super welcome.

Also, if anyone cares, I could post here about the restauration project. Maybe should be in a different forum section but I can link to it. It's a S&S 1710 design, mahogany planking on laminated oak frames; bronze fastened. Hull and engine good, no interior (clean slate but a big project if I want an interior), brightwork and cockput coaming in dire need of tlc, mast is old and weathered but structurally sound and with a little refit (read: not doing anything else but this boat and work this winter) this ship should be ready for sailing next year.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Pepe112

Are a few cm (5 max) less height going to cause big issues with the existing rig if I put it back once I've cleaned up the step plate?

If you plan to use the original wire standing rigging then shortening the mast by 5cm all of the wires will be too long and you won't be able to tighten the turnbuckles enough to tension the wires.

[Pete7]

If you go back a few months, perhaps even over a year, Project Atticus on YT had the same problem with their previous yacht. The mast had corroded so no choice but to cut it off and make a step. They did well, but then a follower made one out of aluminium for them.

Pete

[TrentePieds]

As long as you can tauten the standing rigging, as long as your main still sets correctly and as long as you headsl furler has enough "air" top and bottom to operate correctly, you'll never feel the loss of a coupla inches of mast.

TrentePieds

[psk125]

As 30pieds suggests, if the rig can be tightened down to compensate for the 5 cm without messing with the headsail furler etc., it should be OK. For fixing the step, nylon might not be tough enough for the compression. High-density plastic or other material (ironwood?) might work better and should not be expensive. Making it 5 cm thick would compensate for the lost mast section and put things back to where they were in short order. It might be quicker to do that than to have to re-tune the rig for the shorter mast.

[mlydon]

You can have a machinist make a small section of aluminum that slides up into the the mast, and matches the exterior shape so it will fit in your shoe. You could even have It made out of stainless, so the plug ends up bonded to the mast, but not the step.....

Matt

[rmhutch59]

Why don't yo put the Mast step on a 5cm block of Aluminum. and use longer bolts to secure it.

[Pepe112]

Gee thank you all for all the answers and ideas!!

So the crucial bit is whether the existing rigging has enough adjustment+some reserve for further adjustment left in it to compensate for the loss of length + some margin at the top needed for sails and ther mentioned stuff. No big surprises there but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask

Alternatively, somehow compensate for the loss of length of the mast. Lots of great ideas.

If you go back a few months, perhaps even over a year, Project Atticus on YT had the same problem with their previous yacht. The mast had corroded so no choice but to cut it off and make a step. They did well, but then a follower made one out of aluminium for them.

I've watched the episode, thanks for the reference! A machined alu mast step would be perfect, except for the cost of course.

For fixing the step, nylon might not be tough enough for the compression. High-density plastic or other material (ironwood?) might work better and should not be expensive. Making it 5 cm thick would compensate for the lost mast section and put things back to where they were in short order. It might be quicker to do that than to have to re-tune the rig for the shorter mast.

Gold, thanks for this, I chose nylon because it seems tough, but I'll look into what kind of plastic or other material is more suitable than nylon. HDPE might be an option?

You can have a machinist make a small section of aluminum that slides up into the the mast, and matches the exterior shape so it will fit in your shoe. You could even have It made out of stainless, so the plug ends up bonded to the mast, but not the step.....

I hear ya. With regards to the shape that goes into the 'shoe' (or step? I'm pretty confused about the difference atm) I have to look a little bit better at what's left in the shoe/step and what it originally was. Looks to me as if there was no base plate whatsoever, just the mast extrusion sitting on top of 'something', possibly the steel, but maybe I need to check again. The step is full of plastic grains atm that came out of the mast, haven't looked under them yet. Will do that next weekend. As to stainless in the alu mast, I follow your logic, however I'm not sure if I like the idea of adding a source of corrosion in the lower part of the mast if it can be avoided.

Also, I found a thread on a similar problem from a Swan 36 (almost identical to my ship, but made out of plastic instead of wood), here:

https://www.classicswan.org/forum/po...hp?thread=1296

Pics on that thread are quite useful to get a better understanding of the situation.

Won't be until the weekend when I go over to get more info but will post once I have news. And maybe some nice pics.

Thanks again to all of you who replied!

[thruska]

Originally Posted by psk125

As 30pieds suggests, if the rig can be tightened down to compensate for the 5 cm without messing with the headsail furler etc., it should be OK. For fixing the step, nylon might not be tough enough for the compression. High-density plastic or other material (ironwood?) might work better and should not be expensive. Making it 5 cm thick would compensate for the lost mast section and put things back to where they were in short order. It might be quicker to do that than to have to re-tune the rig for the shorter mast.

Likewise. I wouldn’t trust nylon.
Construct a “shoe” or small mast step to make up the few cm. Your choice of material varies according to your wishes. Aluminum, stainless steel, or wood. Make sure your base is solid and thick enough for ss fasteners.
In my Columbia 28 i had to reconstruct the step below the sole board. I used treated wood laminated with epoxy, and bedded in the keel with epoxy.
Good luck.

[mike d.]

If your handy with fiber glassing, why don't you just make a plug to fit inside the mast to bottom, then longer, by 5 cm, and larger diameter after exiting the mast to fit the base ! No corrosion, or compression issues

[Cheechako]

Yeah, just make a step block. Maybe HDPE or dense wood has even been used. If you have an aluminum plate under the mast extrusion maybe 1/4 to 3/8" thick, Nylon or Starboard would be fine also. They'd probably be fine without the plate but the mast may sink in just a little bit. Bolt or weld a few blocks to sit inside the mast on the plate to keep it in place.

[Djarraluda]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah, just make a step block. Maybe HDPE or dense wood has even been used. If you have an aluminum plate under the mast extrusion maybe 1/4 to 3/8" thick, Nylon or Starboard would be fine also. They'd probably be fine without the plate but the mast may sink in just a little bit. Bolt or weld a few blocks to sit inside the mast on the plate to keep it in place.

I would be very careful about HDPE. Such plastics are subject to creep and the continual compression on the pressure points will result in ongoing and annoying creep that will slowly shorten the mast and thus loosen the rig. Small, but noticeable. UHDPE may be more suitable. Very high load sliding bearings for example are made out of Tufnol to avoid that creep and the wear associated.
i.e. use marine grade aluminium (not residential type aluminium which will corrode).
Most keel stepped masts have a plug, so the heel sits in a block-out on the keel. I would take a template of that hollow so the fabrication can be matched and then you will get a secure location for the mast heel irrespective of the material used.
Roger

[Pepe112]

Hi all,

just a post-weekend update: Not on the mast step, as I spent the whole weekend cleaning etc. Started with the stern compartment going over it with vacuum cleaner and toothbrush where necessary (drains) and also stabilized the various little issues I found along the way (lots of debris from previous work on the boat that hadn't been cleaned up and as a result mostly some rotten frame ends due to drains clogged by said debris).

The general logic is that by slowly working from the stern towards the bow and cleaning everything along the way, I will get intimate knowledge of every nook and cranny of the boat and of the issues. Once these are identified and stabilized I can work them into a planning instead of the issue dictating when I do what, later on.

That will take a while and this bigger job will be interrupted by 3 other shorter jobs:

1st is to put up an iglo (allowing for good ventilation without rain falling on or into the boat). Aside from protection from rain water this will keep dust away from neighbouring ships and possibly even allows for some heating while working during the coming colder months.

2nd is the construction of a simple frame with storage shelves on the sb side of the otherwise empty cabin to store the teak deck that is waiting to be mounted (at the end). To this end I removed the two SB bulkheads which were poorly mounted anyway. The teak planks will be stored right up under the side decks where they are out of the way and under them will be a shelf for keeping all the tools neatly organised and in reach. I think this will make life a lot easier.

3rd is fixing provisional lighting on board, incl. on deck, to extend workable hours. Not much more to report, I included some pics from last weekend to give an idea of the project.