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Old 17-09-2021, 08:19   #1
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MastFoil Chris White Designs

Seeking opinions on MastFoil, by Chris White Designs.
Please read his discussion on his webpages first if you have time.
Would seem to work on monohulls as well as catamarans but I have not seen it on a monohull. Wish I had the funds to try.
I was extremely impressed with the first MastFoil cat I saw after speaking with the crew. Still a monohull guy, but the rig is very interesting.
Anyone with experience sailing a MastFoil offshore ?
Isnít this rig a lot safer for larger boats or older crews than traditional rigs?
Thanks in advance for replies.
Captain Mark
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Old 18-09-2021, 14:08   #2
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

I get a zillion replies on coffee makers and salt shakers. NO catamaran people want to discuss this rig? OK, the manatees are monohulls, but I did build catamarans and Iíve actually have a good friend who sails a high tech one.
Nobody has ever sailed a MastFoil design???
O K. I know they are expensive but I think the advantages might be great.
NO comments? Yikes.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew filling out job applications at Chris White Designs. All because I didnít read the brake cleaner can.
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Old 18-09-2021, 14:20   #3
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

LOL!

I have seen a couple of Chris White boats, very striking. I watched one sail across the mouth of Portsmouth Bay, Dominica. No clue how fast she was going but it was FAST!!!!!

I looked up a bit on the mast foil, not much descriptive literature.

Dosent matter, waaaay outta my price league.

Kind of intriguing, but many questions. Like how do you take it down?
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Old 18-09-2021, 17:43   #4
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

Well you donít take it down. The soft sail furls up just like any other roller furling but there is no need to do much with the foil unless you want to do something with the boat. He explains all the things you can do with the foils and some are pretty interesting.
Iím impressed with the safety factors especially for two person crews.
I think this rig is a game change.
Mark
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Old 18-09-2021, 18:02   #5
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

I mean they are kind of interesting, but I felt they were not great airfoils (they still need sails) and not all that different from masts with a foil cross section.

I have actually gone through the complete design and math for using a single foil sail on my boat. The thing that stopped me is I had already built her and the areas that carry the loads for the rig.

It would have required a free standing mast which was a lot of modification and redoing parts of the main structural beam to take the loads.

It was too much to integrate, but the math worked out.

A true full foil with some stabilizing foils would work fantastically on paper. You could literally sail and not attend the sail. I devised a “throttle “ mechanism to get more force out of the airfoil and it would have run just like a power boat. It could even sail backwards!

But it wouldn’t be sailing as we know it. No more art of sailing. Just like a power boat. I really would still love to do this, but budget and time.... no good.

His mast foils are just not enough foil and too much sail. Like a hybrid bicycle in my opinion.

Ready to get a thrashing since I know the manatees are big fans.
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Old 18-09-2021, 19:23   #6
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

Manatees have big paddles but just use them for propulsion. First, thank you for posting, hope your health improves. Sincerely.
Well, the first time I spotted this catamaran, I knew the masts were foils. I didnít ever think Iíd see the day. I learned fluid mechanics at a lab behind MIT from a man who designed fighter aircraft. A lot of yacht designers had talked about new ideas for sails, but nobody built them. Well, Iím going way back. Ice boats? Iím not an historian. I thought asymmetrical twin keels was going WAY out of the box when we built our boat. LOL
And Iím not a catamaran guy.
SO...I talk to this couple who have sailed a long, long way and...they still look HAPPY. The boat is big and looks like itís flying at anchor. Fast. Nice lines. Then I ask who designed it. Chris White. The guy lives in the town I grew up in. Talk about feeling old, and out of the loop? Yikes.
Boatbuilding and yacht design is just so interesting. I really do think MastFoil is a big step forward in offshore sailing SAFETY. Chris explains it well on his webpages. The boat makes a lot of sense for a couple with kids.

Iím toting a crew of 2000 lb pizza eating blubber butts and a huge tool shop. I wish I was younger and Iíd build an aluminum twin keel MastFoil monohull. So shoot me but I need a floating manatee resort thatís ice bear proof.
Happy trails.
Mark
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Old 18-09-2021, 19:33   #7
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

I have sailed as a guest on a Chris White Mastfoil for a couple of hours in Buzzardís Bay. She performed very well, and I love the layout with the ability to run the boat from the sailing cockpit or the inside helm. I also like the placement of the master and vip in the center of the boat. The rig appeals to me for shorthanded sailing, and I assume the center of effort is lower because the masts are shorter than a sloop rig. That said, I have very little experience with cats. The only drawback to Chrisí boats is that like all performance cats, they need to be kept light.
Best,
Maldwin
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Old 18-09-2021, 19:52   #8
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

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Saw this one in Block Island a couple of weeks ago.
Thatís about all I know.
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Old 18-09-2021, 20:18   #9
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

One reason your not getting responses, there are only about 6-7 completed boatsÖÖ.not a large pool to draw information from.
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Old 18-09-2021, 23:07   #10
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

It's different for the sake of being different. If I had that kind of money I'd prefer an aero rig.
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Old 19-09-2021, 09:01   #11
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

Is it really much different than any other split rig? Itís a high tech version of a staysail schooner or ketch/yawl. In terms of sail sizes and loads it has all the same advantages.

On the Atlantic 47 the listed sail area is ~1100 ft2. Thatís a pretty modest sail plan in a cat that size, our 48í boat has ~1300. Both the Atlantic (more so) and our boat (a little less so) are relatively easily driven, and so a rig with modest sail area works well. In order to maintain even reasonable speeds most of the popular cats have what, to me, are pretty massive sail plans. Square top mains and tall masts. Move the modest Mastfoil to those boats and I suspect theyíd end up motoring even more. If you try to make that sail area in the split rig you may lose some of the advantages of smaller gear, etc. and you start to lose some of the lovely party area deck space.

Now, if I could move that rig to a Hammerhead 54....
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Old 19-09-2021, 11:20   #12
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

Took a look at CWz website and i got a cuppla questions.

He says:

Quote:
s the mast rotating?
No. The MastFoil mast is a very simple non-rotating mast. This avoids the numerous problems associated with rotating masts such as unfair halyard exit leads, corrupted masthead instruments and lights, inability to adequately tension the shrouds, etc.
But yet he says:

Quote:
What happens with the MastFoil rig offshore in a storm?
Nothing, if that is what you want! The foil will feather into the wind on any point of sail. When feathered, the drag of the mast and rigging is reduced by about 90% over a conventional mast. In severe weather having the least windage possible will make handling the boat safer and easier.
Have your cake and eat it too? What am i missing?
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Old 19-09-2021, 11:34   #13
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

The foil is wrapped around the mast and rotates around it, but it is not the mast. The mast is a normal, stayed, non-rotating mast.
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Old 20-09-2021, 03:47   #14
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
The foil is wrapped around the mast and rotates around it, but it is not the mast. The mast is a normal, stayed, non-rotating mast.
Is the mast round? i thot that it said that the mast was normal - oblong. So the foil changes shape depending on the angle of the foil to the wind?

jus wondering.
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Old 20-09-2021, 04:25   #15
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Re: MastFoil Chris White Designs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maldwin View Post
I have sailed as a guest on a Chris White Mastfoil for a couple of hours in Buzzardís Bay. She performed very well, and I love the layout with the ability to run the boat from the sailing cockpit or the inside helm. I also like the placement of the master and vip in the center of the boat. The rig appeals to me for shorthanded sailing, and I assume the center of effort is lower because the masts are shorter than a sloop rig. That said, I have very little experience with cats. The only drawback to Chrisí boats is that like all performance cats, they need to be kept light.

Best,

Maldwin


Good point as the shorter rig makes a 47í performance catamaran ICW friendly. Not important for some but very important for others.
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