Luders 33 Chainplate Replacement

[nv5l]

My boat slipped in the sling a few days ago when they pulled her, and one of my lower chainplates snapped and pulled out a small hunk of deck. It had a little 'L' shaped thing welded onto the side that made the hole as it ripped through the deck. I can't see that adding a whole lot of strength, so maybe they just added it to make a lot of noise so you'd notice it.

All the chainplates, as well as the standing rigging seems to be original, i.e., 40 years old, so it's well past time to replace them. So, in the long run, I guess they did me a favor when they let her slip, otherwise I might have waited longer. Most of the chainplates are either fully or partially glassed in, but easily accessible. I plan to remove and replace all of them, and will fabricate my own. I've also ordered new shrouds.

Now for the question/problem. The backstay chainplate appears to be completely glassed in, and I can't see how it's attached when I look underneath. I plan to pull the toerail off the transom to get a better look, but does anyone know how Allied attached their backstay chainplates?

There's what looks to be a 3x5 timber glassed in at the center of the transom going from the deck down to the chine, and I assume it's attached to that, but won't know until I start chiseling. Has anyone else ever replaced the backstay chainplate on a Luders 33, or any Allied boat for that matter?

thanks...
don
s/v Aurora

[ziptie-ducktape]

I am currently replacing all of mine as one snapped in a storm,
but both my for and aft are external/

[nv5l]

My stemhead fitting is external, but the stern one just disappears into the deck at the edge of the toerail. The stemhead is really beefy, so I hope it will be okay. If not, I may have PTF fabricate one for me with bow rollers.

I'd just like to know what I need to cut out to get to it. I've been searching around, but haven't found anyone who's done it.

[Luders33]

I haven't taken apart my rear chain plate but i did drill though it and fastened one on the exterior of the hull. Water came out when I drilled through the hull and that boxed in block of wood. I used a monsterous piece of 316L stainless (1/4" thick by 2" wide) and some super long 3/8" bolts... I think I had to order a couple 8" long in order to get a nut and washer on the inside. I am plaining to redo the whole thing with two chain plates made of CU-NI, one on either side of that piece of timber. Then I will just find a long pin. I never did remove the original chain plate... it is still as it was but it doesn't interfere with the new one on the exterior of the hull.

I already finished all six of the other port and starboard chain plates... I oversized them a bit and made them of Copper nickle also. I cut the right angle tabs off before removing the four lower shrouds. the only glass that I cut was around the bolt heads and nuts (using a small hole saw). Then I removed the bolts and cut the tangs off from above with a hacksaw blade slipped in between the gap. and a little grinding from below. it wasn't fun. even after cutting the tangs off I had to pry the chain plates out with some force. I hammered in the new chainplates I hand cut and drilled (they were 1/16" thicker and maybe an 1/8" wider than originals) then I put another layer of heavy weave cloth over the four lower attachment shoulders and put front and back back-up plates and bolted it all together. It was not a fun job.

[nv5l]

When you drilled the new holes, did you have to drill through the original chainplate? I thought about doing the same thing, but was concerned about hitting either the old chainplate or fasteners and ending up with an even bigger problem.

[Luders33]

Yes... i did drill though the original chain plate... i can't believe I made it through five times... I do think I hit at least one fastener but not dead on... i just didn't get a straight hole. Actually most of the bolts heads do not sit flat on the chain plate so they are all drilled somewhat crooked. If you try it you need a long drill bit.. at least 8" probably longer. and make sure you push hard or the bit will heat up and be dull quick.

[Luders33]

I can't really tell you where the fasteners are... I never opened up the fiber glass. After drilling the new holes.. there was some visibility into the structure. The glass actually had an air gap under it. I looks like they didn't glass right against the nuts... or bolt heads. I dont' know which why the bolts went in.
for now my chain plate is good... but it has a pretty acute bend and i read that cold bending 316 beyond a certain % is not good.

[Luders33]

I hope your not working out doors on this project anytime soon... it was hard enough for me to do in nice weather at the dock.

[nv5l]

We're in the middle of a blizzard right now, so I plan to wait at least until that blows over. I'll cover her next week, so that will help as well.

Thanks, that really helps. I should be able to just chisel off the glass covering the bolt/screw heads on the inside. I'll replace/re-glass the timber as needed and go the external route as well -- one less hole in the deck.

Did you replace all the other chainplates too? What about the stemhead fitting?

[Luders33]

I am usually on Oahu... but I am enjoying this snow storm too in CT.
I did change the other six... I posted a little description in this thread. The two upper shrouds came out easily below the deck. The four lowers were tough. The bow... I haven't planned to do anything yet, it is pretty hefty material.. I hope it is good.

[ziptie-ducktape]

I have just left the old ones, and moved them left or right slightly and aluminium on the back and I had them heated to bend.

[nv5l]

Luders33: Mine actually touch the sides of the holes on deck, which will cause the caulk seal to break when the deck flexes. I'll be going with 1/4 x 1 1/2 ones, so I'm going to enlarge the holes to give me some space all the way around for some 5200. I'm not looking forward removing the old ones either.

zip: I like the idea of adding backing plates for everything, but prefer to keep them in the same location. I'm stuck her till spring, and have done a lot of glass work, so I might as well fix what I've got. That said, I might modify the stern configuration after I get the old one off. I'll just have to wait and see. I haven't ordered the new stays and shrouds yet, but simple is better.

[nv5l]

Btw, the problem with the stemhead fitting is that the toerails fit into it on both sides and cover a couple of fasteners that bolt through the deck, so taking it off involves taking off, or cutting away, those huge toerails.

[ziptie-ducktape]

it was too difficult to remove the old ones so I left them in place,,, and they could snap like the last in a storm..

[Luders33]

that was another project i did more recently... rebedding the toerails. I never rebedded the stemhead fitting... maybe I should have removed it... or at least changed out the fasteners.