Loong Sails...Anyone ordered from them before?

[littledevil]

i have found this ebay deals from a guy who happens to be a US rep. of a UK based/sail loft in Asia. He has got some good deals on headsails, asymmetricals and mainsail. They are cancelled/non paid orders(so he said), ready to be shipped. If it fits to your roller furler or rig dimentions or perhaps its already made for your boat, it may worth to check out. https://www.ebay.com/sch/loongsailsu...p2047675.l2562
So i have ordered a genoa, I don't know anything about their work quality but the price point was hard to beat. So i took a chance.
I was getting quotes from different sail lofts for a main as well and he wanted me to check his company, loong sail, https://www.loongsails.com/. After some deliberation, decided to order a mainsail as well.
This is the first time i am getting new sails. Before, i was just using whats on the boat and sometimes grab a second hand.So, I have high expectations but also aware that i took a chance as well and i may be disappointed. I was wondering if anyone deal with them before and share his/her experience. Thank you.

[JBas]

How did the sail you ordered turn out ? I assumed you’ve received it by now ?

[littledevil]

Originally Posted by JBas

How did the sail you ordered turn out ? I assumed you’ve received it by now ?

They are awesome. Both in high end material, both very well cut(i have ordered tri-radial). Nice thing about the main as, they don't charge a lot for extras...I have the insignia, sail numbers etc. Even added some custom touches like loose foot...They had off shore reinforcement add on for like $30 or sth...i wish i would have get that too. Price: Half of what i would have pay anywhere else. Really hard to beat. On top of that. the USA rep. Christopher was a total pleasure to deal with. Give me couple days i can put together a video or pictures. Something...

[littledevil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTn4...ature=youtu.be

here is a quick video i have put together. I have no commercial ties. He helped me out(chris, US rep, with my order...i am returning favor)

[Kestrahl]

Loong sails is a front for Wilfer Sails, which is a 100% Chinese owned company run by former staff from China Sail Factory.China Sail Factory was a western owned and managed wholesale loft in China that no longer exists. Actually in the end Wilfer helped (but didn't cause) them to go bankrupt and then brought all their equipment cheaply at government auction. After that most of the wholesale manufacturing for western companies moved to Sri-Lanka.
You can still see photos of sails on their website made by other sailmakers - they actually got sued for this not long after they started, and for stealing all the production manuals from their former employer.
I've seen some pretty bad stuff from these guys - radial sails where they use cheap fill dacron in the corners. Sails made mixed from two different brand materials. Its cutting corners that shouldn't be cut.
Anyway you get what you pay for, so best of luck !

[littledevil]

Thanks for the info. I have my own boats since 06, i have seen plenty of sails came and gone on my previous boats. The strong point for me was the price..I think i have saved half so if i can get roughly 5 years of service, i would be happy. The cut, roach...Everything seems to be where it should be. The material is stiff, quality looking. But i agree the textile world is a whole different world and material is very advanced. I am not racing...Just cruising local. A few strong conditions like 30+ winds probably would make things clear. i ll report back when that happens. I may make few videos along the way. If they held up good, i ll for sure to be a returning customer.

[bullsails]

Agree with Kestrahl. I have a sailmaking friend ( I am a sailmaker as well) who was somewhat bemused to see one of his sails used in their advertising with his logo airbrushed out.
The sign of a poor product will not be initially apparent, but will become obvious in a relatively short time.
Crispness of cloth is very misleading, coated vs impregnated resin!

[cdarwincole]

littledevil, aka Mr. Calabrese, thank you so much for that great video and your kind words!

Cheers!

Chris
Christopher Cole

Loong Sails USA

30 Freedom Road

Middlebury, CT 06762

203-725-6740

cdarwincole@gmail.com

www.loongsails.com



*



______(\________/)___/)_____

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[cdarwincole]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Loong sails is a front for Wilfer Sails, which is a 100% Chinese owned company run by former staff from China Sail Factory.China Sail Factory was a western owned and managed wholesale loft in China that no longer exists. Actually in the end Wilfer helped (but didn't cause) them to go bankrupt and then brought all their equipment cheaply at government auction. After that most of the wholesale manufacturing for western companies moved to Sri-Lanka.
You can still see photos of sails on their website made by other sailmakers - they actually got sued for this not long after they started, and for stealing all the production manuals from their former employer.
I've seen some pretty bad stuff from these guys - radial sails where they use cheap fill dacron in the corners. Sails made mixed from two different brand materials. Its cutting corners that shouldn't be cut.
Anyway you get what you pay for, so best of luck !

Loong Sails is a partnership between German and Chinese (of Hong Kong) businessmen. If you know any history and are not a racist, you will be well aware of the exceptional probity that has been exhibited by Oriental bankers and businessmen for centuries, including periods during which European and American bankers and businessmen were not up to the high ethical standards of their eastern counterparts.

We have been in business some 30 years now. China Sail Factory was a competitor to us. When they went out of business because companies for whom they did OEM work built their own lofts in places like Sri-Lanka, yes, we bought some of their equipment. Why not? They had some good stuff.

We make sails for some very big names that you would know, and we make our sails to the same standards or better. They just charge a whole lot more for the same sails.

When we do OEM work, we do make sails to specifications given to us by the "sailmakers" for whom we make sails. We make them they way they specify them. Where did you see these inferior quality sails? Whose label was on them? What evidence or testimony can you present? I've got references. Do you?

The sails that I as the rep for Loong Sails have sold have been 100% the materials we say they are made with. If you say you saw sails made by us with material substituted, then either you are not truthful or that is the way the sailmaker for whom made the sails wanted them. We do what we are asked to do.

[cdarwincole]

Apparently some rival "sailmakers" who are overcharging their clients (as are most "sailmakers") have decided to use forums like this to trash the competition rather than try to provide better value to their customers. As the US rep for Loong Sails, I will be glad to refer prospective clients to our many happy customers aroound the world.

Cheers!

Chris Cole
Christopher Cole

Loong Sails USA

30 Freedom Road

Middlebury, CT 06762

203-725-6740

cdarwincole@gmail.com

www.loongsails.com



*



______(\________/)___/)_____

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[bullsails]

Hi Chris
Nice rant, I will ignore the rhetoric and answer with what I know.
Just thought I would verify before I replied to your post as the information was anecdotal and verbally passed onto me. Albeit a trusted source.
The photo in question was on the Loong sails website and of a sail on a Schionning Catamaran called Mojo.
I will point out we did not make the sail and neither did Loong! And yes the logos were airbrushed out?
The sailmaker in question contacted Loong to say they had no right to use that picture as it implied they made it, as one would reasonably assume upon viewing it!
It was eventually removed.
I think maybe you can contact your head office/ advertising department/ web designer to check.
The other question you took offence to, was not directed at Loong Sails, but rather a comment on sailcloth. Yes all the suppliers mentioned make good cloth, we use them too! But all of them also do a budget range at “an economical price”. So even within the individual supplier there is a huge difference in quality.
Have a nice day.

[Kestrahl]

Replies in Red

Originally Posted by cdarwincole

China Sail Factory was a competitor to us. When they went out of business because companies for whom they did OEM work built their own lofts in places like Sri-Lanka, yes, we bought some of their equipment. Why not? They had some good stuff.

China Sail Factory went out of business for a number of reasons but not because their customers built their own lofts in Sri-Lanka. Wilfer Sails won the government auction for ALL of the China Sail Factory equipment.

We make sails for some very big names that you would know, and we make our sails to the same standards or better. They just charge a whole lot more for the same sails.

Sounds like marketing talk to me. Personally I would never buy a OEM sail from a company that also sells sails cheaply though retail portals

All the sails I've seen with issues have had the "Wilfer" label. I'm not about to start posting emails and photos on here. Good luck with your business and representation of this company.

And on image 6 on the superyacht page you may want to scrub out the North Sails logo.

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Replies in Red



And on image 6 on the superyacht page you may want to scrub out the North Sails logo.

Also didn't Doyle make the sails for Regina (only reason to watch Skyfall) pic#4 Superyacht page?

Those are North Sails on Seahawk pic#1.

[cdarwincole]

Originally Posted by Kestrahl

Loong sails is a front for Wilfer Sails, which is a 100% Chinese owned company run by former staff from China Sail Factory.China Sail Factory was a western owned and managed wholesale loft in China that no longer exists. Actually in the end Wilfer helped (but didn't cause) them to go bankrupt and then brought all their equipment cheaply at government auction. After that most of the wholesale manufacturing for western companies moved to Sri-Lanka.
You can still see photos of sails on their website made by other sailmakers - they actually got sued for this not long after they started, and for stealing all the production manuals from their former employer.
I've seen some pretty bad stuff from these guys - radial sails where they use cheap fill dacron in the corners. Sails made mixed from two different brand materials. Its cutting corners that shouldn't be cut.
Anyway you get what you pay for, so best of luck !

You make numerous false claims. Why not try to improve the value you offer your customers rather than simply slander a bigger and better sailmaker? Where is the documentation and evidence to support your slanderous claims?

For going on 30 years, Wilfer Sails has been the joint venture of German and Hong Kong Chinese businessmen. If you read much history are are not a racist, you know that the probity of oriental bankers and businessmen has for centuries been at least on a par with those in the west, and indeed, often Americans and Europeans did not measure up to the high ethical standards of their eastern counterparts.

When China Sail Factory went out of business -- largely because the big "sailmakers" for whom they made sails began to build their own lofts in places like Malaysia and Sri Lanka -- yes, Wilfer bought some of their equipment. So did other sailmakers -- like the one you perhaps work for. Why not? They had some good stuff, and Wilfer had a fast growing base of happy customers.

Like many other sailmakers, Loong Sails has its sails made on an OEM basis by Wilfer Sails. The difference is that the Loong Sails office is on the same block as the main Wilfer Sails loft, and Loong Sails personnel spend a lot of time there.

I know of no such shoddy sail craft as you describe. Loong does not substitute. I've talked with dozens of people who have purchased sails from Loong and all are very happy with their purchases.

I do know that Wilfer makes sails for a lot of very big names who only lead clients to believe they make all their sails in their own lofts: when those "sailmakers" give you a long lead time, it is beause they need to get enough orders to fill a conatainer for shipment from overseas. (Loong ships direct by air to your door.) Anyway, Wilfer will build the sails the way the OEM customers want. If they want to cut their costs and design cloth substitutions into their product, probably Wilfer will build the sails as specified: they are not going to give away anything a client won't pay for.

But Loong dosn't do that: no substitutions. They make sails with 100% of what the client as agreed to. And that is 100% material from Challenge Sailcloth, Contender, and Dimension Polyant. The Challenge office is here in my home state of Connecticut. Go ahead and call them. My understanding is that Wilfer buys so much cloth and laminate from Challenge Sailcloth, Contender, and Dimension Polyant that they can sell a sail -- designed and assembled with state-of-the-art equipment -- for less than many small sailmakers could buy the material for.

And that probably explains your post in a nutshell.

[cdarwincole]

Sailmaking is an incestusous business. You'd be surprised how often production is farmed out to other lofts.