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Old 04-08-2022, 10:34   #1
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Knots for tying into mangroves

The season is upon us and I've started sorting hurricane lines. But when the time comes, what's the best knot? Some years ago during a talk hosted by Bruce Van Sant, he discouraged the use of bowlines saying they chaff on themselves. And I've seen this myself.
So two rounds with two half hitches?
Anyone have an opinion before things get dicey...
Bry
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Old 04-08-2022, 12:56   #2
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

Two wraps of a webbing sling and a shackle into a thimbled spliced eye will minimize damage to both the mangrove and the line.
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Old 04-08-2022, 13:02   #3
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

Ditto on RaymondR's advice. If you are not up for rigging that and need to tie a knot, remember that two half hitches makes a constricting loop while a bowline makes a fixed loop. If I was tying to a single tree trunk, I'd be inclined to use a clove hitch sealed with a half hitch. The loss in strength is then low and I doubt that it would chaff.
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Old 04-08-2022, 18:33   #4
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

How about an anchor bend (anchor hitch)?
Two round turns around the tree/root clump, then tie the bend.

https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/anchor-bend

It works well on dock pilings also. Added security, tuck the working end under one of the strands (if 3 strand) of the standing part or lash the working end to the standing part.
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Old 04-08-2022, 18:41   #5
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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How about an anchor bend (anchor hitch)?
May be OK - as long as you don't mind having to cut the knot off to release it after it's been loaded in hurricane conditions.
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Old 04-08-2022, 18:56   #6
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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May be OK - as long as you don't mind having to cut the knot off to release it after it's been loaded in hurricane conditions.

Might be worth it. 3 feet of rope is a small price to pay..



I would do up an eye splice, soft shackle, and two or more wraps of a continuous web sling, if time, skill, and materials would permit.
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Old 04-08-2022, 18:59   #7
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

Yeah, it'll do that, won't it.

OP, if you have the time, you can build what I did: 5/16" chain fished through 2" polyester tubular webbing. Two turns around a tree, then ends shackled to a chain leader into the water, where it is shackled to a 3-strand or 8-plait that goes to the boat. Tree protected by the webbing, line won't chafe because it connects to the chain leader in the water. It's kinda heavy and cumbersome, but works.

Hmmm.... maybe dyneema in a chafe-protecting sheath instead of chain??? Perhaps next year?
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Old 04-08-2022, 19:42   #8
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

I would have thought a bowline was the perfect knot.

I've not seen them chafe. Is this a thing ? They don't seem to chafe on jib sheets etc and they get there share of flogging. I can't see the knot chafing in a storm.
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Old 04-08-2022, 19:49   #9
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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I would have thought a bowline was the perfect knot.

I've not seen them chafe. Is this a thing ? They don't seem to chafe on jib sheets etc and they get there share of flogging. I can't see the knot chafing in a storm.
tkeithlu in Post #3 hints at the reason.

A "constricting hitch" will be tight around tree or whatever it is tied around and the line will not move as load direction varies.

A "fixed loop" will not be tight and will constantly slide against the tree with every small directional change. That will result in chafing between the loop and the tree (not at the hitch).
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Old 05-08-2022, 01:23   #10
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
tkeithlu in Post #3 hints at the reason.

A "constricting hitch" will be tight around tree or whatever it is tied around and the line will not move as load direction varies.

A "fixed loop" will not be tight and will constantly slide against the tree with every small directional change. That will result in chafing between the loop and the tree (not at the hitch).


Could that be avoided by simply doing two turns around the tree before closing the bowline?
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Old 05-08-2022, 01:42   #11
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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Could that be avoided by simply doing two turns around the tree before closing the bowline?

I doubt it, you can't get a constriction round the tree with a bowline, no matter how many turns you use. It will always be a fixed length loop and will still be a loose fit and liable to slippage. Clove hitches, Round turn and two half hitches, etc are "constrictors". They all close up tight around the tree when put under load.
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Old 05-08-2022, 02:33   #12
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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I doubt it, you can't get a constriction round the tree with a bowline, no matter how many turns you use. It will always be a fixed length loop and will still be a loose fit and liable to slippage. Clove hitches, Round turn and two half hitches, etc are "constrictors". They all close up tight around the tree when put under load.


Thanks, I agree a bowline is never a constrictor. What I meant is that, by doing two turns, you can dramatically reduce chafing because the knot will adjust to new angles of pull without the bowline loop having to saw into the tree. I don’t know how to describe it in words, but hope I am sufficiently clear… Sorry if I am not.
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Old 05-08-2022, 06:31   #13
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

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tkeithlu in Post #3 hints at the reason.

A "constricting hitch" will be tight around tree or whatever it is tied around and the line will not move as load direction varies.

A "fixed loop" will not be tight and will constantly slide against the tree with every small directional change. That will result in chafing between the loop and the tree (not at the hitch).
I don't know what it's called but instead of tying the bowline loop around the object. Tie a bowline (or use a spliced loop). Pass it around the fixed object than feed the tail thru the loop. As you draw the tail up, it constricts.

We do it all the time when tying to a piling and then cleat the tail off on the boat.

If you are worried about it sliding up and down, you could pass the tail around and thru the loop 2-3 times creating something similar to a Kliemhiest or Prusick knot.
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Old 05-08-2022, 06:39   #14
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

Thanks everyone for an informative discussion on a little-discussed topic.
I hate to admit it but in the past I used a short length of chain around the mangrove and shackled to my line. Then the Mangrove Police caught up with me.
Endless web strops seem like a perfect replacement for the chain... easier for me to handle, easier on the tree. Unfortunately, for this year, I doubt I will be able to locate the webbing at my present location.
So after reading your comments, I think I'll lead my line to two mangrove trucks in line with each other and in line with the pull. I'll tie a clove hitch to the first trunk then lead the standing part to the second trunk and tie off with two rounds and two half hitches. Then lead the standing part back on itself and secure with a couple of zip ties. Anyone see a problem with this?
Thanks,
Bry
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:42   #15
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Re: Knots for tying into mangroves

Obviously not mangroves, but here in the Baltic everybody seems to be using round turn and two half hitches when “Scandinavian mooring” with bow tied to trees.

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