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Old 03-11-2015, 11:25   #31
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Edited: Step 6a has been added:
STEP 6a
Pretension the soft shackle before burying the ends. Simply close it and attach it between two winches and slowly but steadily winch it tight. Let it sit like this for at least 20 minutes. If this is not done, apparently you may have reduced strength if shock loads are applied before the stopper has been fully tightened. Better to be safe than sorry.



STEP 6b

All that is left is to tuck the working ends through the standing ones.

- I think it may help strength if you tuck the end into its corresponding standing portion rather than the other one (Evans touched on this) and this is easy with the black marks on the tape
- Separate the taped standing ends and holding the button give the shackle a little shake to see where the lines fall naturally
- Find a suitable spot to start feeding the working end through its matching standing portion
- Starting as close as you can to the Button's base, open the standing end cleanly between strands with a marlin spike, then remove it and and insert the fid (with line inserted when it reaches), bunching up the standing line to increase its diameter as you push it though

Edited to add: A fid that works by pulling the line through (eg a homemade wire fid, needle fid, splicing wand) will enable the tails to be pulled through closer to the base of the stopper). If a Selma style fid is used as in the photo it is much harder to insert the tails close to the base.

- Continue well past the length of working line, as the outer casing shortens a bit as it encases the inner portion:
- Pull the fid with working line through and untape the end

- Edited to add: Taper the end, as you would for an eye splice. Unlike long bury splices, the soft shackle strength will not be limited by the taper, so the technique is not critical, it will just provide a smoother junction.

- Milk the outer casing down smoothly and the end will disappear into its centre
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:30   #32
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

STEP 7

Repeat with the other end.
That's it, you're done .
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:32   #33
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

The finished shackle closed:
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:34   #34
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
The finished shackle closed:


Nicely done.

Wonder how much to buy?

Set up a production in Greece........
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:37   #35
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

And another view of this beauty.

It is almost a pity to loop this work of art through chain and submerge it .
Brion, Allen and Evans - fantastic work developing this soft shackle!

SWL


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Old 03-11-2015, 11:39   #36
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

SWL:

The soft shackles have already begun in the cruising community, the "radiation" is slow, but builds exponentially. We've been using them for a few years, now, and so have friends, and we see them on other boats, as well.

Ann
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Old 03-11-2015, 16:55   #37
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Nicely done.

Wonder how much to buy?

Set up a production in Greece........
I have seen them for about $25 each, though none are using the stronger shackle. Most are selling either the 'better' or original. Given they contain about $1 worth of materials it's hard to justify buying them.
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Old 03-11-2015, 18:24   #38
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I have seen them for about $25 each, though none are using the stronger shackle. Most are selling either the 'better' or original. Given they contain about $1 worth of materials it's hard to justify buying them.
Depends where you buy your material. Best price in Aus seems to be about $7 per metre, so your looking at around $10 for your 1.4m.
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Old 03-11-2015, 19:39   #39
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I am considering trying a button on a 'better' construction however. Do you know if any testing has been done with this configuration?
Yes, I tested that . . . if you do not bury the tails then it is the same strength as the regular 'better' diamond construction.
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Old 03-11-2015, 19:41   #40
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
And another view of this beauty.
I hope you have enough 'unburied' length left to stick thru your chain!
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Old 03-11-2015, 22:12   #41
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Yes, I tested that . . . if you do not bury the tails then it is the same strength as the regular 'better' diamond construction.
What about making a 'better' design with a diamond knot, but back splicing the ends before tieing the knot?
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Old 03-11-2015, 22:19   #42
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Depends where you buy your material. Best price in Aus seems to be about $7 per metre, so your looking at around $10 for your 1.4m.
A couple of years ago in Australia, 6mm soft shackles were selling for around $40 - $50. Have looked at the price of them recently?
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Old 03-11-2015, 22:29   #43
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
What about making a 'better' design with a diamond knot, but back splicing the ends before tieing the knot?
Wouldn't that result in a monster sized shackle?

Evans came up with an "Improved" shackle a while back, where he back spliced the ends leaving a small loop, then pulled the standing ends through and tied an overhand. See his load testing pdf for details:
Load testing
There is apparently a risk of slippage of the stopper though.

SWL
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Old 03-11-2015, 22:43   #44
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Seaworthy,

Thanks for all the work. I am sticking with the improved version just because I don't like the double legs coming down from a usage point. Though obviously these are stronger, to me they just look messy.

I am considering trying a button on a 'better' construction however. Do you know if any testing has been done with this configuration?
Hi Stumble
I will make one up today. Evans' comment that it has roughly the same strength as a "Better" shackle is appealing.

I will make the bury about 10 x line diameter (50mm for the 5mm line I will use). I guess it could be less if a locking stitch is used, but I want to keep it simple.

What shall we call it?

We already have:
- Classic/ColligoMarine/Original (it has never been named properly)
- Kohlhoff
- Improved
- Better
- High Strength

This is midway between a Better and High Strength design.

The "Button"? Its predominant feature is that it does not have a tatty tail sticking out of the stopper like the Better one does.
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Old 03-11-2015, 23:05   #45
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re: Instructions for Tying the High Strength Soft Shackle & Brion Toss Button Knot

My vote is for better button, but then I like alliteration.
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