Instructions for Tying the Brion Toss Button Knot & High Strength Soft Shackle

[ChrisJHC]

I have a handful of 5mm softshackles on the boat for “just in case”.
I also have a couple of 3mm ones.

Don’t really see the need for anything else.

[ChrisJHC]

Sorry about the duplicate!

Re sizes, I have a handful of 5mm softshackles on the boat for “just in case”.
I also have a couple of 3mm ones.

Don’t really see the need for anything else.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

SWL
PS By the way, I sent Ryan from How Not 2 Highline an email over a month ago now regarding the eye size issue I raised earlier and have heard absolutely nothing back. Not even “thanks, we are looking into it”. Clearly not interested in the suggestion their technique could be improved.

Ah, that's disappointing.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Okay, I have some development on this front. Always being on the lookout for products, I came upon these improved soft shackles made out of Amsteel Blue in 7/64” or 2.5mm made and sold by Treavor Bates of Hanging High Hammocks.

On Amazon, I only paid $10 for two of these with a 3” closed length.

So when I received them, I stretch them out to make the legs even and I see a really small loop… a noose And sure enough, when I close the shackle, the loop is too small for the two legs, resulting in one leg being longer than the other. Exactly the problem we discussed.

So normally one gives up and goes on with other stuff, but I had this feeling this was a small business that is really trying to get good products out, so I sent an email, explaining the issue, linking to this thread and suggesting improvements as well as maybe larger diameter Dyneema for more applications for boats.

This started some conversation and a couple days later I receive two new and improved shackles and they are done right. With that I mean they are flawless. The button knot perfectly tensioned, tapered, equal length buries etc. The variation between the two shackles now is the difference in loop size around the two legs, one showing a little more clearance than the other, instead of legs being shorter than the other.

I told Treavor that this could become good business for him but how many shackles can one tie before going nuts? I mean, I’m looking to buy standard size shackles because I feel too busy to tie more to replace steel shackles aboard. He can of course tie them much quicker because it’s probably a daily task for him, while I always get the button knot wrong the first time.

One thing he tried is send some shackles out for independent testing and now that his shackles look perfect, I’m thinking maybe one of our members is willing to test some? These should be around 1,500kg breaking strength. I’m not sure if Evans still has access to the test bench he used?

We also discussed different diameter Dyneema. What would be the most usable for the average cruiser? 5mm? I’m using 6mm most of the time but that’s just because I buy that by the spool but 8 tons breaking strength is a bit high for most applications?

I think it would be great if we could just make a list of shackles, loops etc. we need and have someone like Treavor make them at the realistic price level he is at, being outside the traditional marine market.

Here’s the product I ordered: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099BZ7SSY

That's great. I have a lot more dyneema than I have time. I'll put in an order for a few.

It would be cool if Treavor could source Low Friction Rings, because I'd like a bunch more of these

[jbinbi]

Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but why use 2 legs rather than a single piece of dyneema?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but why use 2 legs rather than a single piece of dyneema?

I am not sure I understand your question.

A single piece of dyneema is used when constructing soft shackles. Most have twin legs, but this is sometimes not obvious as one leg is buried in the other for the central portion.

SWL

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I am not sure I understand your question.

A single piece of dyneema is used when constructing soft shackles. Most have twin legs, but this is sometimes not obvious as one leg is buried in the other for the central portion.

SWL

Sorry for not making myself clear. I am just a user of these shackles, haven't really tried making one.

On page 1 of the thread, there is a pic of the 'better' shackle, and it looks to be made of a single leg (maybe I am wrong here). That is what I purchase.

Below that is the 'high strength' shackle, which has 2 legs, e.g. 2 pieces of line next to each other rather than a single piece of line.

I would assume that 2 legs of say .25mm line has the same strength as 1 piece of .5mm line? Maybe I am wrong here. So I am missing why to make it with 2 legs rather than 1.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Sorry for not making myself clear. I am just a user of these shackles, haven't really tried making one.

On page 1 of the thread, there is a pic of the 'better' shackle, and it looks to be made of a single leg (maybe I am wrong here). That is what I purchase.

Below that is the 'high strength' shackle, which has 2 legs, e.g. 2 pieces of line next to each other rather than a single piece of line.

I would assume that 2 legs of say .25mm line has the same strength as 1 piece of .5mm line? Maybe I am wrong here. So I am missing why to make it with 2 legs rather than 1.

No, what you think is one leg are actually two legs, but one sits inside the other one, like a core.

[jbinbi]

Ah. Thanks. Put that in learned something new today bucket!

[s/v Jedi]

About the improved shackles from Hanging High Hammocks: Treavor send me an email explaining that Amazon warehouses hold a stock of the old version, with tight noose. As these are marketed for hanging a hammock, they are perfectly fine and he has no control over where the new versions go.

So if you want to order these new versions, send him an email and order straight from his website.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

About the improved shackles from Hanging High Hammocks: Treavor send me an email explaining that Amazon warehouses hold a stock of the old version, with tight noose. As these are marketed for hanging a hammock, they are perfectly fine and he has no control over where the new versions go.

So if you want to order these new versions, send him an email and order straight from his website.

Could have used this info yesterday. Was sure he was making them since Amazon gave me a 1 week Delivery.

What's his website?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Iron E

Could have used this info yesterday. Was sure he was making them since Amazon gave me a 1 week Delivery.

What's his website?

Hanging high hammocks is his company. You dislike my timing with info on the forum but remember you didn’t pay me to do anything for you either so please give me a break.

The whole forum is ordering these now and even the old ones are fine for 99% of use cases and probably you have free returns like I have.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hanging high hammocks is his company. You dislike my timing with info on the forum but remember you didn’t pay me to do anything for you either so please give me a break.

The whole forum is ordering these now and even the old ones are fine for 99% of use cases and probably you have free returns like I have.

I neither liked nor disliked your timing, so no "break" from me is needed.

Thanks for the site name.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Iron E

I neither liked nor disliked your timing, so no "break" from me is needed.

Thanks for the site name.

Sorry, it came over as critical so I pushed back… unwarranted it seems

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Sorry, it came over as critical so I pushed back… unwarranted it seems

I forgot to reply, but, the soft shackles I ordered were perfect.

Thanks again for the recommendation Jedi.