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Old 01-02-2023, 01:37   #61
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
Chotu there is way more to it than just comparing $800 to $4000. $omeone has to make all the calls, organise the paperwork and insurance. Then the delivery driver might be making a round trip and be coming back empty. Not to mention more than once I have been in a boatyard and the travel lift/staff have been unable to load a truck until later than the stated time. So, the drivers just $itting in the cab waiting waiting. I see it is roughly a 600-mile journey on google. So, first day load and get halfway, second day arrive unload and start back, third day home for the driver. Depending on the truck set up, that might mean 2 nights in a motel, plus meals etc. Here in Queensland that's $1000 just in wages plus all other expenses.
Your very first post you say on Uship you didn't get a single bid. So obviously the 788,000 transporters thought your job was too unique to want to do. Which reflects in the price you are now being charged.
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Well, that’s exactly what I’m saying. They shouldn’t be running a truck just for this one Mast. I want to put it on the truck it’s already going in that direction.

The largest spar company in United States is the one that is looking at moving it.

So I’m going to see if they can put it on with other spars that are going north.

They’re talking about picking it up tomorrow and having it there by the weekend or something. That doesn’t seem like anything I need. I won’t be there for a very long time.

Also I’m pretty sure on uship I didn’t get any bids because people don’t really know how to move things like this. Just because they don’t have any experience with it. Plus it’s a lot of small mom and pop people on there. When I say mom and Pop I mean some guy who just moved to United States yesterday from Brazil or some thing and he has a pick up truck. that’s the vast majority of people on uship.

The ones that I did talk to on uship actually didn’t even understand how permitting worked for the four states. Some whack job came on and said it should cost $20,000 in permits and 40,000 to move it.
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Old 01-02-2023, 01:47   #62
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

There may not be a truck going between the exact locations you're talking about.


While we're thinking outside the box, though, what if you paid the folks doing the work to come to you?


$4,000 (plus additional costs you'd incur getting yourself and the boat there) may pay for a couple of trips for a person to measure things and bring the required parts to you.


Just throwing something out there to consider.
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Old 01-02-2023, 02:33   #63
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

Tie a couple of 44 gallon on each end and tow it with your dingy??
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:13   #64
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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Not quite. You should scroll back. I told you you had no idea what you were talking about when you said I couldnít move it with my truck.

Especially when I have already done that. Thatís when you had no idea what you were talking about.

Are you forgetting? Or just kind of rewriting the posts in your head to reflect what you wish they said?

I had already looked ahead to see what the permits cost. For all four states itís like between $18 and $48 per state. So no. It was not expensive if thatís what you were talking about. If I drove it with my own truck it would cost about maybe $800? Including fuel and hotels

Certainly a far cry from 4000.

I never said the permits were expensive to get yourself, I said paying someone to organize and drive this would be expensive. I stand by that.

I also stand by my comment that you should not do it yourself, but you certainly CAN.

Instead of being snotty about it, if you can just get all the permits yourself, and can safety drive a load of that size, just DO it, unless you have an extra $3200 to throw away.

I think you are missing the logistics of the trucking industry. A 64 foot stick doesn't just get strapped on any truck going your way. It's a specialized load and takes specialized equipment. You MIGHT get lucky and find a compatible load going your way and another coming back in the time frame you need, but it's very unlikely.

You are complaining about the difference between 800 and 4000. Let's take you number straight up... it would cost you $800. Now on top of that you have to actually PAY the guy driving the truck. And the office staff who do the scheduling and logistics and marshal the permits. and the mechanic to take care of the truck. And the depreciation on the truck.

So your question about is $4000 a ridiculously high number, no it is not.
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:15   #65
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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Tie a couple of 44 gallon on each end and tow it with your dingy??
Is that legitimate? I have been thinking of just towing it all the way up. I thought of that earlier in the thread.

Would it be destroyed by the salt water? It would be in saltwater for a month probably. It would have marine growth all over it by the time I got there. The paint would be destroyed. Actually never mind. Thinking about it, thatís not saving me any money at all.

The only way that would work is if it were high enough up that it wasnít submerged. Which could also work. I think I need a certain special light and would probably wrap it in some bright orange streamers so everyone could see it but towing it is definitely something I would consider doing.

I donít really know what you mean by towing it with the dinghy though. Itís a 1000 mile trip
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:17   #66
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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I never said the permits were expensive to get yourself, I said paying someone to organize and drive this would be expensive. I stand by that.

I also stand by my comment that you should not do it yourself, but you certainly CAN.

Instead of being snotty about it, if you can just get all the permits yourself, and can safety drive a load of that size, just DO it, unless you have an extra $3200 to throw away.

I think you are missing the logistics of the trucking industry. A 64 foot stick doesn't just get strapped on any truck going your way. It's a specialized load and takes specialized equipment. You MIGHT get lucky and find a compatible load going your way and another coming back in the time frame you need, but it's very unlikely.

You are complaining about the difference between 800 and 4000. Let's take you number straight up... it would cost you $800. Now on top of that you have to actually PAY the guy driving the truck. And the office staff who do the scheduling and logistics and marshal the permits. and the mechanic to take care of the truck. And the depreciation on the truck.

So your question about is $4000 a ridiculously high number, no it is not.
Fair enough. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

Also, I definitely don’t understand the trucking industry. I’m not in it. I understand what LTL is. I see this 450 pound load that is just a little bit too long for most situations being just an LTL. I don’t really understand why it wouldn’t be seen that way.

So your input is that $4000 is a fair price? The whole rig only cost $6000 so it’s a little hard to stomach.

I’ll ask them if it can be grouped with anything else going north. You see, I don’t know if you are here in the states. I didn’t really check. We have a highway called Route 95. It goes from Miami all the way up to Maine. It just goes right up the East Coast. Every single spar that would ever be transported by truck up and down the United States on the East Coast would go on this road. This is the same route that my Mast would need to go as well. It’s not really out of this world to think that there are other shipments that are long on this route.

Just like I have to go right by this guy’s place to get up to the north east United States on the icw, every other load in the entire East Coast have to go by his place as well. It’s extremely convenient. It’s about halfway between Miami and the Northeast. Everybody going to the northeast has to go right by it. It’s not a specialty route.

The only specialty part of it is they have to deviate from the highway and go out to the ocean in North Carolina. So that can easily be done unloading just a single spar. And I could pay for that. In addition to my part of the LTL shipment. Doesn’t need to be a special trip.

And in fact the trucking company doesn’t have to do anything. I have a team ready to unload it.
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:20   #67
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
There may not be a truck going between the exact locations you're talking about.


While we're thinking outside the box, though, what if you paid the folks doing the work to come to you?


$4,000 (plus additional costs you'd incur getting yourself and the boat there) may pay for a couple of trips for a person to measure things and bring the required parts to you.


Just throwing something out there to consider.
Itís a long project. The hotel costs would be way more than $4000. Plus he wouldnít have all the tools he needs or access to his supply chain down here. Everything does definitely have to be done at his location. His location isnít out of my way by any means. I would have to go right by him this spring anyway. Even though itís 1000 miles away, I was already planning to go by there.

And it doesnít make much sense unfortunately, for him to use the metal fabricators down in this area and stuff because they absolutely suck.

The reason the fabricator took six weeks to not even start the side adapter plates to bring both shrouds to a single chain plate? Because he was uncomfortable doing it. Like he didnít think he could get it right. Thatís what held the whole thing up. No communication. He just said that once he was relieved of having to do the project.

In a lot of ways I think itís cultural. Florida seems to be the home of the ďcanít doĒ attitude I donít connect well with. Iíve got to go north where the culture lines up better with things like this. Where people figure out ways to do things. And try things. Iím kind of done down here. It will be a nice place to visit just for the temperature as long as youíre not trying to get things done. But trying to get a project done in Florida is like smashing your head into a brick wall.
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:21   #68
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

5 pages? Just make a few saw horse type stands and put it on deck and strap it down. No big deal Everyone that comes down the Erie canal to go south does the same thing. Yes it will stick out 10-15ft either end but really its been done for decades. AND you have a Cat so more manoeuvrability and more beam than most to protect the mast with!!
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:29   #69
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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5 pages? Just make a few saw horse type stands and put it on deck and strap it down. No big deal Everyone that comes down the Erie canal to go south does the same thing. Yes it will stick out 10-15ft either end but really its been done for decades. AND you have a Cat so more manoeuvrability and more beam than most to protect the mast with!!
I guess you missed most of the five pages?

There are many reasons thatís not an easy thing to do in this case.

You probably also missed that I have done the Erie canal like that.
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:39   #70
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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I guess you missed most of the five pages?

There are many reasons thatís not an easy thing to do in this case.

You probably also missed that I have done the Erie canal like that.
Yes I've been reading (and following along) seems you have no real obstacles other than you. Building the cradles doesn't require access to a vehicle. just have to find a local lumber yard and walk the supplies back...Been there done that. If where you are doesn't have the ability to dock a Cat, how were you planning in getting the mast raised originally? You must be able to dock the cat where the mast currently is to put it on deck.
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Old 01-02-2023, 06:46   #71
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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Yes I've been reading (and following along) seems you have no real obstacles other than you. Building the cradles doesn't require access to a vehicle. just have to find a local lumber yard and walk the supplies back...Been there done that. If where you are doesn't have the ability to dock a Cat, how were you planning in getting the mast raised originally? You must be able to dock the cat where the mast currently is to put it on deck.
OK. Iíll play along.

Itís 3.2 miles to local lumber yard. Thatís 5.15 KM and involves a highway.

How do you propose walking sheets of plywood and 2x6ís back again? Give me some details. Sheets are 4 x 8, two by sixes maybe can be got as short as 6ft.
Tell me how I would carry these back. Please lay out the exact way I should carry them all. How many trips?

The place with my Mast is a day away from here. By boat. They have a crane. They have a seawall. There is just barely enough room in the body of water that they are in for me to turn this catamaran in a circle using both engines. I nearly touch both sides of the small canal. They have a small little seawall where they line up boats that are getting the rigging done. They are sort of in a little queue. Ones in the back are behind in the schedule and the one at the front is right at the crane and ready to go. Other than that there are no boats being stored there. They donít have any docks. Just the active working seawall. For active projects.

Currently I am at anchor a day away from that location. The closest Anchorage that there is to their spot. There are no marinas in this area that can take my boat. They wouldnít even let me take a mooring.
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Old 01-02-2023, 07:04   #72
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

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OK. Iíll play along.

Itís 3.2 miles to local lumber yard. Thatís 5.15 KM and involves a highway.

How do you propose walking sheets of plywood and 2x6ís back again? Give me some details. Sheets are 4 x 8, two by sixes maybe can be got as short as 6ft.
Tell me how I would carry these back. Please lay out the exact way I should carry them all. How many trips?

The place with my Mast is a day away from here. By boat. They have a crane. They have a seawall. There is just barely enough room in the body of water that they are in for me to turn this catamaran in a circle using both engines. I nearly touch both sides of the small canal. They have a small little seawall where they line up boats that are getting the rigging done. They are sort of in a little queue. Ones in the back are behind in the schedule and the one at the front is right at the crane and ready to go. Other than that there are no boats being stored there. They donít have any docks. Just the active working seawall. For active projects.

Currently I am at anchor a day away from that location. The closest Anchorage that there is to their spot. There are no marinas in this area that can take my boat. They wouldnít even let me take a mooring.
I don't think you'd need any big sheets of plywood, just some dimensional lumber and screws to make the supports. What were you thinking of using the plywood for?

As far as transport, for some amount of money (looks like $79 around here) Home Depot will deliver an order for you. So if you could arrange with the yard where the mast is, you could potentially get the boat over there one morning, schedule to have supplies delivered that day, spend the day assembling supports, have the mast lifted on board and head out that evening.

It would take some planning, but it should be possible. It also might be possible to arrange with a marina or somewhere to get the supplies delivered there and dinghy in to get them (presumably for some amount of money).

Another option to do it where you are might be to rent a pickup truck for a day to go get the stuff yourself. If you did that (or could arrange with a local marina) you'd be able to assemble the supports out at anchor with as much time as you want, then go pick up the mast when you're ready.


Out of curiosity, do you have a side view and maybe a top-down view (even if just of one hull from on top of the cabin) of your boat? That might give some ideas of if there's a low-effort way to carry the mast safely. And you're 55 feet from stem to stern on each hull, right?
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Old 01-02-2023, 07:36   #73
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

It’s 42ft on deck, From where the reverse bows begin to where the deck stops before the stairs aft.

However, there is quite a bit of curve on the side of the boat. Please take a look at the dagger board location. It is marked as board on the starboard hull. Right next to the big red 42. It is moved Outboard from the original plan. This creates more space inside the boat. And does not affect performance.

So the only place to store it on deck would be between the dagger board and the deck house at the centerline of the individual hull.


However, due to the curvature toward the bow, a good portion of the mast would be off the boat just hanging out over the water forward. A fairly good portion would also hang out aft.

It would not be possible to dock the boat. As you would be jousting into the dock on approach and couldn’t work with the bow, stern and midship cleats.

It would also create quite a severe hindrance to being able to go fore and aft on the boat because the side deck is used when you are anchoring and things like that typically. I have a load of materials on my daybed to the starboard aft. So I can’t get out that side. There’s just too much stuff on here. It’s laden with construction stuff. Adding the mast on here would make it almost impossible to use the boat. I don’t think it can go up on the deck house. There’s not much to hold it. There’s no structure. Only a very small amount of the mast would be supported. You’d have to build multiple supports and one of the supports would have to somehow be integrated with the bow beam. I attached a picture of that as well. It’s at a height lower than the deck house roof so there would be all sorts of construction to do up there to try to hold the mast. All of the supports would have to be 6 feet tall as well. I don’t think a lot of people realize the dimensions involved here. Just carry some lumber back from Home Depot. Yeah right. The cross pieces to make each cradle are over 6ft tall for the centerline of boat approach. That means it requires probably more than 10 foot long boards. Fairly ridiculous project actually.

That’s my furling unit in the picture of the bow beam and Seagal striker where it would have to somehow attaching the front. The perspective is bizarre. That segull striker is significantly lower than the top of the deck house.
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Old 01-02-2023, 07:42   #74
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

You’d get about 30 something feet of usable deck space before it hung over the edge doing center of individual hull location. And that has a little bit to do with the camber on the deck as well.
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Old 01-02-2023, 07:47   #75
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Re: I have to move the mast again. But now itís 64ft.

As a back up plan to save some time, what could I float the mast on behind the boat and just tow it?

It would be doing about 6-7 knots.

I assume it would need to be supported at both ends by some flotation device.

I’m not sure barrels or whatever would work because I think they would not survive 6 kn for 1000 miles? Maybe they would. I don’t know. But I think I would need four barrels in order to keep it up out of the water.

Towing it behind the boat is probably the easiest thing of all. And the least time consuming. Although it does take me two days to go pick it up. So maybe that is not a savings of time. I don’t know.
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