I Found a Rig

[Manateeman]

Hi. I had a long conversation with our catamaran expert and mutual friend with regard to both your vessel and the vessel the mast for sale. I feel a lot more confident this all will work out fine. Let me deal with the most misunderstood spar issue...the length. It is NOT necessary to have a short section of the original extrusion to either splice the mast or to add 5 feet to it, top or bottom. Also,
constructing new anything, and I mean anything attached to the spar, is well within the capabilities of a good shop which fabricates in aluminum.
Take a piece of spaghetti and push both ends together ...one finger tip on each end...till it curves. This is two point fixity like a deck stepped mast. Notice how the curve is not perfectly extended to the few inches near your finger tips..those ends are straighter ...the nice curve you see in the middle, does not extend perfectly to the very end. You can add to either end of the spar because it doesn’t bend like the middle...its in compression and keeping the spar in column is not going to change to the point where you need to move the spreaders or the diamond attachment points. Adding 5’ should be no problem. You might want to check the loading of the panels if you add more sail area up top but I doubt you will need to move spreaders. If you have to move the boom or the vang you can have aluminum parts TIG welded on a bench and then riveted to the spar or bring an inverter unit to the spar. It’s how extrusions turn into spars. Almost all the fancy castings can be fabricated from common aluminum plate and sections then TIG welded. This isn’t rocket science. Probably some of the guys on boat design net will check what you are doing for free and they are great at engineering advice. It’s an extrusion and back of the envelope, looks very close...maybe a bit stronger, a bit stiffer. Who cares about paint at this point.
Write up a simple agreement about the results of inspection to cover the cost of a report from a naval architect or spar company or drop the price. This spar looks like a good fit. Changes added onto the extrusion is not the issue. If the extrusion is a bit stiffer, a bit heavier, then lengthening is no problem.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his “Have Gun (TIG) Will Travel, Wire Manatee, San Francisco.”
WOW...too much beer and movies. I’m locking the manatee fridge.

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

Some masts are shipped in two pieces, then joined with an internal sleeve, with everything riveted.

Agreed. I assembled a Beneteau mast that was shipped in 2. It worked.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

Agreed. I assembled a Beneteau mast that was shipped in 2. It worked.

A sister ship of mine has a brand new mast and it was also assembled from 2 parts. Brand new.

[Chotu]

I’m glad the thread is veering more toward the positive. I’ll have one of the riggers suggested to me out to see the rig.

Manatees have TIG and will travel?? Really? Is that a serious offer? Might just take them up on it.

Maine in the winter is no place for a manatee anyway. Ha ha.

Even the seals think it’s cold and huddle on any semi warm rocks they can.

[Manateeman]

I’ve been building two masts for my boat in St Marys GA. My manatee friends are dressing up for Halloween as Orcas so they can terrorize south bound ICW snowbirds for pizza and beer.
Happy trails to you.
Mark , attorney for the “Orca Boys” manatee gang.

[Thumbs Up]

When the alloy is welded it loses around 1/3 o its strength. That is why mast splices are always located at the spreader where almost 100% of the forces are compression loads. The top 25% ?? of that mast is freestanding. You can't modify that portion (but can maybe or unless engineer some baby diamond stay up there. Someone alluded to having a light air boat is more about keeping the boat light instead of adding sail area. In my (limited) experience, when there wind, there is plenty of it. Might not be easy to evaluate the true value of that rig/sails package on first sight and surely they would accept less. At the very least show up there with a 100' tape, and a micrometer (both cheap at Harbor frieght). Just snap photos that show the tape reading at the different points (quicker than writing it all down, and try to download as many photos of it sailing on it's old boat as they have. If you get a chance to unroll the sails (get the measurements!) or take them with you for evaluation. Also you need to bring a micrometer and measure all of the rigging wire diameter, tang thickness, mast wall thickness, rigging pin diameters, turnbuckle thread size and lots of detailed photos to decide if it is right for you and what you would need to upgrade. Looks like you got some nice batten slides on there, check them out carefully, are they slides or rollers? The relationship of mast rake/ chainplate location and boom slope on a cat is critical so pay close attention to how it was rigged before and the amount of rake you see in photos. Get dimensions from the original boat (even if approximate) Height and distance from forestay attachment to mast base, chainplates (with beam measurement), traveler (distance aft), location of traveler tracks and anything else you an think of. If you buy this and is not right you will always regret it but could be just what you are looking for. You should take a little time to decide (assuming they are amenable) I am sure they want it off their boat!

[Chotu]

Riggers so far:

“You should buy a new mast and we can sell you one”

The marine industry sucks.


Guess I have to do a self inspection along the lines of what ThumbsUp has posted above. Thank you for that by the way.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Riggers so far:

“You should buy a new mast and we can sell you one”

The marine industry sucks.


Guess I have to do a self inspection along the lines of what ThumbsUp has posted above. Thank you for that by the way.

Surely in a state with all that marine activity there’s a competent rigger around who will do a rig inspection for you for some hourly rate?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Surely in a state with all that marine activity there’s a competent rigger around who will do a rig inspection for you for some hourly rate?

I did find one finally after a lot of googling.

Good ratings. $150/hr for driving to the rig, $150/hr while looking at the rig.

[Manateeman]

The manatees can build you a new boat and they can sell you one.
The deposit is 800,000 beers in aluminum cans. One can crusher. An “all you can eat” line of credit at a pizza factory.
DO NOT let one bad apple spoil your apple pie.
I’m really sorry to hear what happened to you. So you need to get past this.
Take a lot of photos. Try to get as much information on the two boats in a side by side presentation. Do a side by side on the spar as drawn and the spar you are looking at. I’d post it on boat design net. I’d run over the call list of spar builders. Someone might be looking to go carbon and sell their alu spar.
I had to build a trailer to move our main mast. Just don’t get discouraged.
Happier trails to you kimosabi.
Mark and his got your back manatees

[Kaimana]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Someone on the forum directed me to an aluminum rig for sale near my boat.

The rig is older, needs a paint job, but it comes with everything. ..........

Should I pick this rig up? I’d be buying it this weekend

Why or why not?

I've been a professional sailboat builder since 1978, and have always rigged all my shop's boats. I sailed my 37-foot cutter and my 56-foot cutter in the South Pacific and around Hawaii for a total of 25 years; so have got some chops in this area.

If the used mast is the right length and section (and you'd need to consult a spar designer to determine this, with the information about the mast that came with your boat), then the mast is probably fine, barring any HUGE PITTED AREAS from electrolytic corrosion that might only be detected with a close examination both outside and inside the mast (with a remote camera on a loooong stick and a bright light on the inside).

But don't trust the rigging wire or the chainplates. Stainless steel suffers from something called "crevice cracking corrosion", which simply means the chainplate or wire can be almost completely eaten away inside, but only show a tiny crack, OR NO CRACKS AT ALL on the outside.

In other words, you can't look at it and tell if it's safe or not. Even an experienced marine surveyor can't; they'll call for at least a "dye test" or even X-raying the rigging wire ends before they put their name on a survey on the boat, and then they'll have some kind of hold-harmless disclaimer included with their survey.

If it was a "quality" yacht, and you can confirm all that stuff is 316 stainless rather than the cheaper 18-8 or 304, then you've got a better chance at being able to re-use it without losing your rig to a wire or chainplate failure. But that's still no guarantee; 316 rarely suffers that kind of corrosion, but it CAN.

If you're getting any bronze turnbuckles or toggles as part of the deal (even nickel-plated ones), that's GOOD, because they're good for about 1,200 years before you have to start worrying about weakness generated by corrosion. Especially if they're the fairly common Merriman-Holbrook brand, which you can tell because they've got a Neptune's trident stamped on them as a trademark. And get them if you can, because a new 1/2" M-H bronze turnbuckle is about $175 now.

Other than the mast and turnbuckles and toggles, though, I'd can all the stainless and get all new.

Unless you're strong and fast enough to catch all the pieces that come down FAST in a dismasting before they harm or kill you or your loved ones. Are you?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

With Warm Aloha, Tim

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

Some masts are shipped in two pieces, then joined with an internal sleeve, with everything riveted.

I’ve noticed lots of new boats with 2 piece masts lately. That splice is about half way and looks riveted although I didn’t climb up there to check.
Freighter shipping has become pretty standard so that’s why it’s done.

[Sand crab]

Brand new Leopard 45