How do I set up these jib car sheet holder thingies?

[theglo]

Good afternoon Cruisersforum,

I’ve sailed my boat about 2000NM into the wind along the Thorny Path from Florida to Antigua. Tomorrow I get to sail on a beam or even broad reach to Guadeloupe. So exciting. I’ve only ever made small adjustments to the jib sheet car things. I have two of these on a single long track.

My sheets were always routed through the aft most ones.

To play with it I just rerigged them through the front ones for tomorrows run. The aft ones I can adjust (not well under load) from the cockpit. The forward ones not so much. I use a 100% jib up there. I also have a 120 on board though haven’t used it since I realized I was constantly overpowered going into the wind.

How do I set these up correctly?

[pjShap]

For reaching I move the jib lead cars aft to the lifeline gate and drop the sheet through the lifeline gate. That keeps the sheet from chafing on the lifelines. Once it's in place, I close the lifeline gate, leaving the jib sheet trapped, but not chafing. It depends on your geometry, but generally leads go further aft off the wind to let the sail fill more perpendicular to the boat.

[theglo]

Originally Posted by pjShap

For reaching I move the jib lead cars aft to the lifeline gate and drop the sheet through the lifeline gate. That keeps the sheet from chafing on the lifelines. Once it's in place, I close the lifeline gate, leaving the jib sheet trapped, but not chafing. It depends on your geometry, but generally leads go further aft off the wind to let the sail fill more perpendicular to the boat.

That makes me 100% wrong! Lol

[theglo]

And why do I have two pulleys on one track??

[DougR]

If it were me I would put a snatch block on the aluminum toe rail and avoid the chafe on the lifelines. Also, contrary to other info posted above, I would move the sheet lead forward, not aft. When you ease sheets to fall off the wind, the jib rises and the head of the sail twists off and becomes inefficient. Moving the car forward pulls down on the head of the jib and keeps it drawing.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by DougR

If it were me I would put a snatch block on the aluminum toe rail and avoid the chafe on the lifelines. Also, contrary to other info posted above, I would move the sheet lead forward, not aft. When you ease sheets to fall off the wind, the jib rises and the head of the sail twists off and becomes inefficient. Moving the car forward pulls down on the head of the jib and keeps it drawing.

You have it right, but after you go around the world with a snatch block on the aluminum toe rail, you will have worn through it. These are expensive, but way cheaper than replacing the toe rail.

https://marine.wichard.com/en/stainl...del/part-16613

[wholybee]

Exactly where and how/when to move the cars depends on the cut of the sail. Do you have tell-tails on your jib? They can be used to get you in the ball park.

When you head up, before your jib starts to luff, the tell-tails will flutter instead of flowing straight back. (I hope I don't get this backwards) If the top tell-tail breaks before the bottom, then top of the sail is too open/ has too much twist. Move the car forward. If the bottom breaks before the top, then the top is too tight, move the car aft.

But, there is more to it than that. If you are a bit overpowered, you can move the car aft, which allows the top of the sail to twist and spill some air. It also make the "groove" slightly wider so if you are in waves and turning slightly as you go over them you can stay powered through them better. And moving the car fore/aft also affects the shape of the foot of the sail. Moving forward will give the sail more draft (curve in the foot) which is helpful in light winds.

Those adjustments are all made starting from a "neutral" point, where all the tell tails break at the same time if you head up too high. It would be good to find that point, and mark that car position so you can always get back there or know where the car is relative to that point.

[wholybee]

Is your boat a cutter? Perhaps the staysail stay isn't rigged presently? That would explain the forward set of cars. Either that or an extra set is just to provide a better lead to the winch. I have a set of blocks on the outside rail closer to the winch to provide the correct lead to the winch, and so the lead to the winch doesn't change as the jibsheet car is moved around.

[theglo]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Exactly where and how/when to move the cars depends on the cut of the sail. Do you have tell-tails on your jib? They can be used to get you in the ball park.

When you head up, before your jib starts to luff, the tell-tails will flutter instead of flowing straight back. (I hope I don't get this backwards) If the top tell-tail breaks before the bottom, then top of the sail is too open/ has too much twist. Move the car forward. If the bottom breaks before the top, then the top is too tight, move the car aft.

But, there is more to it than that. If you are a bit overpowered, you can move the car aft, which allows the top of the sail to twist and spill some air. It also make the "groove" slightly wider so if you are in waves and turning slightly as you go over them you can stay powered through them better. And moving the car fore/aft also affects the shape of the foot of the sail. Moving forward will give the sail more draft (curve in the foot) which is helpful in light winds.

Those adjustments are all made starting from a "neutral" point, where all the tell tails break at the same time if you head up too high. It would be good to find that point, and mark that car position so you can always get back there or know where the car is relative to that point.

I’ll have to play around with it tomorrow if the weather permits. The prior owners were racers (unlike me, slow cruiser). The aft half of the jib car track is labeled with numbers on the deck and I can adjust that half from the cockpit. My guess is most points of sail it should be in that area.

However, it’s always the top of my jib that is luffing first so…maybe it should be farther forward. Will find out tomorrow.

[MGRodems]

On a good day, sail as close to the wind as you can and bring the sail in as tight as reasonable without touching the spreaders. Make sure the boat is sailing well - feels good. The shape of the sail should look its best on this point of sail. The lead position (car forward or back) can then be adjusted to make sure all telltales are flowing (top, middle bottom). Mark or make a note of this position.

As you come off the wind the lead should be moved forward. This will also allow you to adjust the lead to get the telltales streamng evenly at the top, middle and bottom. Make note of these positions as you go toward beam reaching and once again when you are broad reaching. The lead will then want to be even more forward.

[wholybee]

I don't think it is universal that the car needs to be moved forward on a reach. I think it depends on the cut of the sail. For example, with my 130% genoa with a low clew, as I ease the sheet I get way too much draft in the sail. Trimmed in tight the clew is only 2 feet or so from the car, and almost directly above it. As I ease it, the clew moves both forward and out, when I only want it to move out. Moving the car aft controls the foot of the sail, holding it aft while allowing it to move out.

[theglo]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Is your boat a cutter? Perhaps the staysail stay isn't rigged presently? That would explain the forward set of cars. Either that or an extra set is just to provide a better lead to the winch. I have a set of blocks on the outside rail closer to the winch to provide the correct lead to the winch, and so the lead to the winch doesn't change as the jibsheet car is moved around.

I have a staysail that is not rigged, however, there is a whole other track that I believe is for that. It’s on the deck, closer to the center of the boat. I could very well be wrong. I have not used it yet as I store the dinghy on the deck where it would be mounted.

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I don't think it is universal that the car needs to be moved forward on a reach. I think it depends on the cut of the sail. For example, with my 130% genoa with a low clew, as I ease the sheet I get way too much draft in the sail. Trimmed in tight the clew is only 2 feet or so from the car, and almost directly above it. As I ease it, the clew moves both forward and out, when I only want it to move out. Moving the car aft controls the foot of the sail, holding it aft while allowing it to move out.

Gday Wawrick,

I have never seen a genoa that didn't benefit from moving the lead forward when eased off for reaching. As for your lead being directly under the clew, that is quite strange. A good quick rule of thumb is to sight a line from 40% up the luff and through the clew and then put the sheeting block there. It sounds to me like your block is too far forward when tight in. Getting too deep in the foot usually only occurs when the lead is too far forward and the sheet is tight. That is another way to trim the lead, pull the lead aft if the foot is too full and forward if the foot is too flat. The previous answers about ensuring that the head luffs just slightly before the rest of the sail are spot on.

cheers

Phil

[StuM]

Originally Posted by theglo

I’ll have to play around with it tomorrow if the weather permits. The prior owners were racers (unlike me, slow cruiser). The aft half of the jib car track is labeled with numbers on the deck and I can adjust that half from the cockpit. My guess is most points of sail it should be in that area.

Possibly the forward track is for a smaller heavy weather headsail. (Maybe even sheeted inside the shrouds)

[wholybee]

Not directly below the clew, but close. A sight line from probably 90% up the luff through the clew. In this position, I can trim such that the sail is almost on the spreaders, and the forward part of foot is inside the lifelines, and all 3 tell tails will break at the same time.

My track is on the outside rail, so to have the foot inside the lifelines doesn't seem like it is too far forward. Overtrimed perhaps.