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Old 23-09-2020, 14:08   #1
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help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

I have a problem with a small crack in my mast where the gooseneck tang is welded on. The crack is in the weld and has not extended into he mast. It has been repaired once before and the welder told me when it happened again I would need to get it sleeved. The problem is that I am having trouble identifying the extrusion manufacturer. Endeavourcat seems to have folded along with Manta which at least on the early models used the same extrusion. All of the Masts for both the Endeavourcats and the Mantas were built by JSI, which became Island Nautical but apparently no longer has a spar shop. I talked to them once a few years ago and no one from that era still worked there. I'm hoping some Manta owner out there knows what extrusion manufacturer was used for the masts. Someone I know said he thought it was Sparcraft, but none of the extrusions on the website look like mine. I've attempted to attach a couple of pictures, the first of which is the front of the mast which is rounded. The second picture is the back of the mast where it has a flat section about 7cm across and it if course has a track which is T shaped. As close as I can measure it the mast appears to be 160mm wide by 250mm fore-aft. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 23-09-2020, 18:52   #2
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

Is that the gooseneck right at the deck? You said the crack has not gone into the mast extrusion itself so I don’t understand what the welder is talking about.
Sleeve to me means internal...as in a splice. Can you get a better picture.
Usually one can add an exterior piece bent to conform to the exterior of the mast which is larger than the area of the weld so you minimize rewelding.
Is the welder really experienced in aluminum welding.
Can the boom be set aft a bit? Just need more photos or drawing .
You can have a fabricator bend up a piece of aluminum say 1/4” thick which you can bench TIG much thicker pieces on to then use plexus and rivets so no heat on the mast. There are lots of ways. That’s why I have a TIG onboard. Need more info. Please.
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Old 23-09-2020, 20:09   #3
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

As it is an old mast and it is a lower location I would refrain from any welding there.

Looks like the more practical way to deal with this is to fabricate a stainless steel sheet clamp - say 200mm long around the mast with a new gooseneck male fitting welded to it. Can be fully fabricated in a shop and self installed (with a plastic sheet insulation) and probably survive forever.

Best of luck!
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Old 23-09-2020, 21:21   #4
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

The welder was extremely experienced in welding aluminum. The pictures I included were to show the shape of the front and back of the extrusion, not to show the crack. The right picture is of the vang tang, not the gooseneck tang, but they look the same. The crack is on the gooseneck lower tang weld. The boom on my cat is made of the same extrusion as the mast and the shape of the mast was more visible from the tang vang. I've considered grinding off the existing tangs and spanning the cracked area with a large plate of aluminum and a commercially produced tang riveted to the mast with monel rivets. The failed weld would be ground off in the process and any cracking in the mast below the weld level would be stop drilled. What I meant by saying the crack does not extend into the mast itself, was thet the crack does not extend outside of the weld itself. I suspect that it in fact does penetrate the original mast immediately under the weld.



It seems that commercially produced tangs of this size are mounted using 8 rivets. I would think that a plate extending about 4-6 inches above and below the current tang and riveted appropriately would relieve the stress on the failed area and hopefully prevent any propagation of the crack.
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Old 23-09-2020, 21:25   #5
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

In 2016 they still had those extrusions and they have an arrangement to store spare extrusions for the ,S2 7.9 class. So somewhere in St Pete there are some mast sections.
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Old 23-09-2020, 22:00   #6
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
In 2016 they still had those extrusions and they have an arrangement to store spare extrusions for the ,S2 7.9 class. So somewhere in St Pete there are some mast sections.

The where is is now the question. I was hoping someone at Endeavour would know but they did not respond to my email and now their website is gone. I know they merged with another company last year. Their boatyard is no longer listed as Endeavour boat yard. I believe that their old boatyard is now called Coastal Marine yacht services. I'll give them a call and see if they know anything about the extrusions. Their web page seems to feature a lot of Endeavour power cats. Do you have any idea who made the extrusions?
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Old 24-09-2020, 05:50   #7
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

When you say tang, I’m a bit confused because I don’t know if there is a technical term for the thick plates welded to the mast usually in pairs and welded 90 degrees to the mast length...but let’s call them tangs. I thought the photo showed the Vang.
If your welder does not want to grind out the weld and reweld...he’s probably seeing something in the old weld that indicated a weld not structure problem.
When you weld thick 1/2” to thin 3/16 or even 1/4”. It takes a lot of skill and with aluminum, everything has to be super clean. Sometimes the weak area is limited to the core of the weld and probably the mast will be fine. Cut, then grind. Keep the heat to a minimum. Because you are on the track side of the mast, there is a lot more metal. I very much doubt yo need an internal so eeve.
Neither do you need an extrusion. A good shop can bend you up an overlay piece or exterior second mast wall. 1/4” ought to equal or be larger than your spar thickness. They can bench TIG it so the welding is perfect. Rivet it to the mast and you will have a very strong attachment.

You do not need or want stainless. Pacific Spars used stainless for spreader bases on large spars...they look nice but you can’t see under them to inspect the aluminum extrusion.
You can read a lengthy discussion on the boat design web when I asked for comments on the best way to close off old halyard exit slots which are on the mast side. You might not even have a hole and it would be on the strong side.
Fab it up, rivet it on and you will have better than new because the forces are now spread out. Not to worry, it will outlast us both.
Happy trails to you.
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Old 24-09-2020, 07:51   #8
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

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Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
When you say tang, I’m a bit confused because I don’t know if there is a technical term for the thick plates welded to the mast usually in pairs and welded 90 degrees to the mast length...but let’s call them tangs. I thought the photo showed the Vang.
If your welder does not want to grind out the weld and reweld...he’s probably seeing something in the old weld that indicated a weld not structure problem.
When you weld thick 1/2” to thin 3/16 or even 1/4”. It takes a lot of skill and with aluminum, everything has to be super clean. Sometimes the weak area is limited to the core of the weld and probably the mast will be fine. Cut, then grind. Keep the heat to a minimum. Because you are on the track side of the mast, there is a lot more metal. I very much doubt yo need an internal so eeve.
Neither do you need an extrusion. A good shop can bend you up an overlay piece or exterior second mast wall. 1/4” ought to equal or be larger than your spar thickness. They can bench TIG it so the welding is perfect. Rivet it to the mast and you will have a very strong attachment.

You do not need or want stainless. Pacific Spars used stainless for spreader bases on large spars...they look nice but you can’t see under them to inspect the aluminum extrusion.
You can read a lengthy discussion on the boat design web when I asked for comments on the best way to close off old halyard exit slots which are on the mast side. You might not even have a hole and it would be on the strong side.
Fab it up, rivet it on and you will have better than new because the forces are now spread out. Not to worry, it will outlast us both.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his TIG happy manatees

The point the welder was making was that heat weakens aluminum extrusions because it is not practical to give an intact mast the same post extrusion treatment that the original manufacturer uses, therefore a weld always weakens the extrusion. He didn't think that welding parts on masts was a wise idea, he preferred monel rivets. I would be very wary of stainless fittings on a mast, and I will stick to aluminum. Now I need to find someone local that can fabricate it for me.
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Old 24-09-2020, 09:22   #9
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

It was the old JSI spar shop wherever that was. Was quoting new masts with that section in 2016.
It's possible offshore Spars also has the same extrusions in MI but not sure.
Check with the 7.9 class they had mast blanks being stored by JSI
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Old 24-09-2020, 09:51   #10
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

If not cracked into the mast, then why not remove the weld, weld fresh and put a gusset or two on? How do you weld a fitting like that to a sleeve and be stronger? I guess if you do the following it would be like a sleeve:

Another option is to have a doubler made to fit 1/3 the mast shape, (not fully around the mast, just maybe 1/3 or less around the tang). Have the fitting welded to the double and then structural rivet, structural epoxy the doubler/fitting to the mast. I had this done by pros in Annapolis at the in-mast furling cutout on my 47 footer which was cracking at the corners . They do these things on racing boats with small mast extrusions all the time.

Gussets! You need them. That's how they make aircraft lightweight but strong enough for 100's of thousands of cycles.
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Old 24-09-2020, 13:42   #11
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

I’d use plexus rather than epoxy and there are some two part urethanes but very expensive. I don’t want to start another arguement but 316 rivets with Tef-Gel will work if you can’t find monel.
Everybody who works on spars has an opinion about welding directly to the extrusion. Your welder is correct about heat and it’s the number one objection.
There are Spars with welding on them and they haven’t failed in a long time.
The safest way is definitely to bench weld and rivet but there are other opinions.
Hoot. I have a monohull.
You’ll be fine. I’ve seen spars that look a lot worse.
Happy trails to you.
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Old 30-09-2020, 14:13   #12
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Re: help identifying mast extrusion manufacturer

A friend supplied me with Pat Reischmann's email address. He was production manager at Manta many years ago and kindly provided me with the manufacturer of the extrusion. It is a Kenyon section. It is my understanding that Kenyon is now part of the Wichard group and their US office is Sparcraft in Charlotte NC. The only other dealer I can find that has a web site with any detail is Rig-rite. Their web site leaves a bit to be desired. The instructions if you don't know the number of your section is to send them measurements and photos. The Kenyon page says to send them to: blank and tells you to refer to the section on Identifying your mast. The Identifying your mast section sends you back to the same section of the Kenyon page you just came from.



I called Sparcraft and they let me leave messages with someone they say I have to talk to, but he hasn't returned either of my phone calls yet so I've sent them an email as well. Hopefully I'll here something from them someday.


In the meantime, I would like to start shopping for a rivet/bolt-on gooseneck fitting. US Spar seems to have something like I am looking for in their online catalog, but they are made to match their specific mast sections which appear to be a bit more curved than the flat section on my mast. If I go with the proposal to add an external doubler on the back side of the mast I would have it made to fit tightly against the existing profile thus the base profile would need to be pretty flat. Does anyone have any suggestions where I might be able to source such a contraption.


For those who might care to see what I'm talking about here is the link and the items are on Page 14 of the catalog.


https://www.usspars.com/wp-content/u...rs2018V1-1.pdf


I'll call them tomorrow and see if I can make one of theirs work. I'm a bit hopeful about #138 but I'll need more accurate measurements than they have in their catalog.
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