Heavy steering

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Can you increase the size of your quadrant? Or lengthen the tiller on the rudder?

Unfortunately no. I looked at all that earlier. Its right up to the bulkhead now.

It is a wheel chain and wire system.

What I need is something like a gear reduction. I can imagine it but it would need a custom pedestal and some engineering. The wheel shaft would have a small sprocket, say 8 tooth. The down below is a second axel with 2 sprockets, big and small, say 20 tooth and 8 tooth. The upper axel, 8 tooth, turns the lower 20 tooth sprocket, the lower 8 tooth sprocket then drives the wire and quadrant and rudder.

2.5:1 gear reduction. Probably would have a lot of play.

Sounds like a project for my retirement.

Was hoping for a slick off the shelf solution.

[Jim Cate]

One thing I'm not clear about: when in the water but not under way, is the steering heavy? This matters!

Jim

[Sailmonkey]

How about an inline planetary gear reducer?

First thing I found, but it may get the juices flowing

http://www.toteltech.com/product/89.html

[Benz]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Benz,

Can you point me to a manufacturer please. My gut says this will not work but I would like to take a look.

My other option is hydraulic, which I am not crazy about. Ram placement and geometry is difficult. Probably doable but then bugger all difficult to get to for maintenance.

As I said I can live with what I have but would prefer something better.

Sailmonkey beat me to Edson; only other option I can think of is find a used one now that the Lunenburg foundry doesn't make them.
Might try Pete at the Port Townsend foundry: he might have a mold to cast you one; the Mystic foundry is another possible. Those options are $$$ though--I'd keep an eye open for salvaged.
Dunno about the center cockpit thing though, that might make the idea impossible.

[Sailmonkey]

This may be just the ticket 2:1 gear reduction, coupled with a small sprocket.

https://www.southwestspeed.com/?sec=...MaAt1cEALw_wcB

[deblen]

Your type of rudder has no balance area ahead of the rudderstock. The latest Bluenose had/has the same problem. The result is that more torque is required to turn rudder as speed thru water increases-under sail or power.
Read up on balance ratio-the area of rudder ahead of the rudderstock vs the area behind stock. I believe it should be at least 10-15%.
https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/b...rudders.52489/


Your easiest/cheapest solution may be to cut a section out of your keel,above & below the prop/stuffing/shaft. Then weld the same amounts onto the rudder leading edge. Assuming there is nothing but empty space at rear of keel. Woul be farly simple on a steel boat.


Don't forget to weld rope sheers as the new protruding leading edges will be rope/trash catchers. / Cheers/Len

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

One thing I'm not clear about: when in the water but not under way, is the steering heavy? This matters!

Jim

Jim,

It is not heavy at rest.

It just takes effort to turn a rudder, especially an unbalanced rudder, and the mechanical advantage is not there. Small quadrant, small wheel.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Jim,

It is not heavy at rest.

It just takes effort to turn a rudder, especially an unbalanced rudder, and the mechanical advantage is not there. Small quadrant, small wheel.

OK, that's clear now, and yep, either a mod to the rudder to give some balance as suggested just upthread or more mechanical advantage to force the existing rudder over are t he only options... as I think you already understand.

Perhaps a gym membership to build upper body strength is the easiest solution (just kidding)!

This phenomenon is a drawback to these designs and one of the reasons that yacht design has developed the way it has. Hope that you can find a practicable means of beefing up the MA.

Jim

[Lepke]

1.8 is about the smallest I've seen. Mine is 7.
If you added single pulley blocks at the quadrant and sides of the boat, you'd double the number of turns L-L. But you'd need a longer chain and the cable you use would have to be flexible, like braided cable.

[Dsanduril]

Shot in the dark, but what is the chain pitch? Did the PO/builder use something other than the relatively standard 5/8” pitch steering chain?

A 6-tooth sprocket gives less than 4” travel at one full revolution and at 1.8 turns lock-to-lock that’s less than 8” full travel, which seems quite small. Any chance someone put in a larger pitch chain that results in more travel (and less mechanical advantage)?

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

How about an inline planetary gear reducer?

First thing I found, but it may get the juices flowing

NINGBO TOTEL CO.，LTD

This got me started on searching for inline planetary gears which got me to aquatrue planetary gears; which might be something of use. Cant tell yet.

But a good lead for sure.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

This may be just the ticket 2:1 gear reduction, coupled with a small sprocket.

https://www.southwestspeed.com/?sec=...MaAt1cEALw_wcB

oooo! This looks interesting.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Shot in the dark, but what is the chain pitch? Did the PO/builder use something other than the relatively standard 5/8” pitch steering chain?

A 6-tooth sprocket gives less than 4” travel at one full revolution and at 1.8 turns lock-to-lock that’s less than 8” full travel, which seems quite small. Any chance someone put in a larger pitch chain that results in more travel (and less mechanical advantage)?

Standard chain, I replaced a final link when replacing the cable. Your travel estimate is about correct. I actually have a turnbuckle in the wire rope, Incan tension it under the sole. While I have not measured the travel from memory 8” sounds about what it is.

[hpeer]

I looked at the quick steerers, they are at least 7” long, mostly 8”. Right idea but just wont cut it.

The planetary gears might work, they look an awful lot like some of the stuff I found in Jefa Steering Transmission systems. They are pricey and also bulky.

The custom pedestal with 2 axels and a differential sprockets is probably cheaper and simpler in the long run. Or hydraulic.

But.... I took my main to the sailmaker to have the bolt rope relaxed and now he is saying the sail is shot. Not entirely sure why, I will go talk to him more this week. So anyway, there goes the budget. Back on the back burner again.


FYI the 6 tooth sprocket is not standard, 11 tooth is usually about as small as they come from Edson, etc. I have found size 50 (5/8”) roller chain sprockets down to 8 teeth. This may be a specially cut sprocket???? Dont know.