Halyard eye splice question.

[s/v Jedi]

Some photos attached: the same splice done according to the Samson instructions seen on the computer. Samson invented the double braid rope and the splice so I go with their instructions.

Next photo is the Flemish splice I put on the other end. It is never a bigger diameter than the rope itself, perfect for tying a messenger line to it.

Last photo is the best solution: go to Dyneema it solves the bigger diameter and stiffness of a splice in double braid. I step down from a 1/2” double braid to 1/4” Amsteel Blue.

[s/v Jedi]

I forgot to mention: pictures show a Wichard halyard shackle and the tools that work best: Swedish fids and the D-splicer. I got 3 or 4 sizes of D-splicers, they are the best

[TheOffice]

Jedi, On the Dyneema splice how do you get the cover just right?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by TheOffice

Jedi, On the Dyneema splice how do you get the cover just right?

The picture with the Dyneema there is no cover, just 1/4” single braid Samson Amsteel Blue. The other rope is regular Samson double braid (you get the vibe that I like Samson ) and I get it tight by using a winch to tension the splice. I got that from a video from YouTube as well.

[TheOffice]

Thanks.
Nothing wrong with Samson! IMHO the MLX3 is a good value in double braids. I also like the Marlow D2 club, but it is harder to find.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

So i watched a video today and got a succesful eye splice on my first try. what do you think? it feels pretty strong when i pull on it. i couldnt get the rope to go all the way but its super strong. im going to use it for my main sail halyard. i figured i could use a heat gun and sort of melt some of the loose rope back together to make it look a little smoother. I thought maybe i could make my dock lines also and maybe do some halyards for my friends boat.

do you think i should use a heat gun or torch to melt it, the loose section? i know its polestyer but i dont know how easy it melts...any advice would be welcome. maybe just tape it real tight?


Do you think i should do some whipping?

lol Went through this 6 months ago. Pretty rough, you can do better. Just a few more practice attempts and you'll have it.

Use new line, trying to splice old used line is much tougher.

After I put in my stopper knot 6' or so from the end I'm splicing I will give it a good stretch and milk the cover over the core really well, then cut the end again before I start. I've found that gives me a better result.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Some photos attached: the same splice done according to the Samson instructions seen on the computer. Samson invented the double braid rope and the splice so I go with their instructions.

Next photo is the Flemish splice I put on the other end. It is never a bigger diameter than the rope itself, perfect for tying a messenger line to it.

Last photo is the best solution: go to Dyneema it solves the bigger diameter and stiffness of a splice in double braid. I step down from a 1/2” double braid to 1/4” Amsteel Blue.

Thanks Jedi. I will take a look at Samsons instructions. The Flemish splice looks like what i might need to attach my mainsheet to traveler block.


I do need to start to understand Dynema lines. There have been some interesting comments made about its lack of stretch vs sail trim. I wonder though if a little stretch in a halyard line is a good thing offshore to absorb some stress loads? I could see where it would be an advantage racing though.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

Thanks Jedi. I will take a look at Samsons instructions. The Flemish splice looks like what i might need to attach my mainsheet to traveler block.


I do need to start to understand Dynema lines. There have been some interesting comments made about its lack of stretch vs sail trim. I wonder though if a little stretch in a halyard line is a good thing offshore to absorb some stress loads? I could see where it would be an advantage racing though.

You cannot use the Flemish splice for anything that needs to be strong because it’s essentially just the outer braid, with both braids thinned where they overlap.

Use a Dyneema soft shackle or even a Dyneema lashing (use Spyderline) to attach the splice like you made.

Dyneema is much better for halyards where no stretch is desired (old style was steel wire) but for sheets a double braid polyester is fine. I use single braid polyester for my jib sheets.

The only trouble with Dyneema halyards is that you need to add a cover where they are used around a winch or cleat. When you use rope clutches you may even need ones for a smaller diameter even after you add a cover.

First time you make these you buy it with a cover (Samson Warpspeed) and strip the cover where you don’t need it (the half where it attaches to the sail) and save that cover. Next halyard you just buy the Dyneema and use the saved cover.

For furling jib halyards you can even go for just a half halyard to eliminate the other half hanging at the mast. You can buy special hardware from Antal that even frees up the mast winch and cleats.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You cannot use the Flemish splice for anything that needs to be strong because it’s essentially just the outer braid, with both braids thinned where they overlap.

This can't be overemphasised!

Inexperienced people see flemish splices put in the end of halyards by riggers and don't realise that they are ONLY intended for attaching messenger lines when running halyards they must not be used for any real load bearing.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

You guys are awesome. I posted this as a joke in my extreme frustration. I was waiting to see how long it might take for someone to call me an absolute lunatic and to step away from boats, and to never set foot on one again.

Frustrations dissolved i found a better video that was easy to follow and i FINALLY got a half way decent halyard eye splice. I really need to work on my tapering though. The area where the two lines meld together is a little 'chunky' and stiff. I think it will be ok for my jib halyard. The good splice seems pretty solid, and i whipped it to keep it from slipping. I just cant seem to master tapering though....i seem to not cut out enough or completely shred the end.

I do need to get a set of fids though. Im using the splicing wand now. It work but is a little clunky for my noob skills. I think fids would be easier for me to use.

Nice. However, you don't need a set of special splicing fids, All you need is a coathanger or similar piece of wire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlN2W_7-w8s

Feel free to use the measurements and taper specs suggested by the manufacturer of your rope instead of my measurements. The real takeaway here is you can double up a piece of wire and run it through, pass the tapered end through the bight and also tape it if you are of a mind to, then pull it through. For a bigger eye, use a longer wire, or pull it through in stages.

I have also done this, especially in new rope, with no fid at all. I perform a quick taper and tightly tape a few inches with electrical tape stretched very tightly. and the very tip folded over and taped as well, to blunt the "point". Then I use any pointy object to help open up the cover, if needed, but usually for small yacht size ropes, thumbnails alone will do the trick with new rope. Anyway the stiffened end serves as its own fid. Something to remember when you don't have any tools at all except your knife and your splicing tape, AKA vinyl electrical tape.

If the head of your sail is very near the halyard block at the masthead, you might want to consider an appropriate knot instead of a splice. The reason is that sometimes the diameter of the splice is a bit too big for the sheave. If you have nice fat sheaves or skinny halyards or lots of room between the sail head and the sheave, a splice is great.

Some tips for a successful double braid eye splice:
1. Pull the tapered ends firmly to get the crossover nice and tight.
2. Milk the two sides of the crossover away from each other to get it nice and compact.
3. Roll the crossover firmly between your palms. See a pattern here? Getting a good bury is mostly all about having a tight, compact, smooth crossover.
4. This is counterintuitive for most beginners but you do more for yourself by actually putting tension on the standing part and the eye, than by forcefully milking the cover down. The harder you stretch the rope, the smaller diameter the part getting buried will be and the fewer hockled yarns you get, which interfere in a good bury.
5. With used rope, it sometimes helps to wash the rope with Tide. I sometimes even coil and tie them neatly and firmly, and toss them in the washer. Half the time they still get snarled up but they come out nice and soft from the spin cycle. Fabric softener doesn't hurt a thing. You can wash them in the cockpit, too, by stopping up the scuppers, running some water in there, and adding some Joy dishwashing liquid, which cleans well in either fresh or salt water. Put on your boots and do the Snoopy happy puppy dance. Or just go barefoot. Makes them look nice, too, if that is a thing for you.
6. With really hard rope, you may have to cut the tapered core tip completely off at the extraction point, instead of tapering it to end at a half fid length up, or wherever. This may or may not leave a very small hollow feeling place there, but you really don't weaken the splice very much at all.
7. You can also try when you extract the core, pull about one or two diameter's worth of extra core before making the first mark. This sets a tiny bit more slack in the cover. Sacrifices a couple percent of strength, maybe, but it can make the difference between a successful and unsuccessful splice.
8. Especially with new rope, sew through the splice. You can also sew through the crossover before burying, just don't leave a knot out there to catch on the cover when burying. Sewing is not done to keep the splice from pulling apart. That ain't gonna happen. Sewing is done to keep the eye from closing up, as the bury buries itself deeper under heavy strain. Okay, actually, theoretically the splice could work itself undone and pull out, but honestly I have never seen it happen, and I have spliced 12" circumference double braided ship's mooring lines and then used them to tie up very large ships and put crazy tension on them with very powerful winches. The eye is not gonna pull out if the splice is made properly. But it can close up.

[Cynara]

We attached our halyards and sheets with bowline . If you make a loop then you would have to use a shackle to attach them to you sails which means they will wear in the same place. When you tie them on the wear point changes every time. If the halyard gets away from you it can smack you in the head.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

So i watched a video today and got a succesful eye splice

Your meaning of successful and my understanding must be very different.
Just tie a Bowline until you have it mastered.
I found rope type to be very important on double braided rope, I ended up buying a mooring line with a long spice cutting the splice away and using the rope, on my first useful splice.

Having said that your rope looks ok for splicing - but it ain’t easy.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Nice. However, you don't need a set of special splicing fids, All you need is a coathanger or similar piece of wire.

Feel free to use the measurements and taper specs suggested by the manufacturer of your rope instead of my measurements. The real takeaway here is you can double up a piece of wire and run it through, pass the tapered end through the bight and also tape it if you are of a mind to, then pull it through. For a bigger eye, use a longer wire, or pull it through in stages.

I have also done this, especially in new rope, with no fid at all. I perform a quick taper and tightly tape a few inches with electrical tape stretched very tightly. and the very tip folded over and taped as well, to blunt the "point". Then I use any pointy object to help open up the cover, if needed, but usually for small yacht size ropes, thumbnails alone will do the trick with new rope. Anyway the stiffened end serves as its own fid. Something to remember when you don't have any tools at all except your knife and your splicing tape, AKA vinyl electrical tape.

If the head of your sail is very near the halyard block at the masthead, you might want to consider an appropriate knot instead of a splice. The reason is that sometimes the diameter of the splice is a bit too big for the sheave. If you have nice fat sheaves or skinny halyards or lots of room between the sail head and the sheave, a splice is great.

Some tips for a successful double braid eye splice:
1. Pull the tapered ends firmly to get the crossover nice and tight.
2. Milk the two sides of the crossover away from each other to get it nice and compact.
3. Roll the crossover firmly between your palms. See a pattern here? Getting a good bury is mostly all about having a tight, compact, smooth crossover.
4. This is counterintuitive for most beginners but you do more for yourself by actually putting tension on the standing part and the eye, than by forcefully milking the cover down. The harder you stretch the rope, the smaller diameter the part getting buried will be and the fewer hockled yarns you get, which interfere in a good bury.
5. With used rope, it sometimes helps to wash the rope with Tide. I sometimes even coil and tie them neatly and firmly, and toss them in the washer. Half the time they still get snarled up but they come out nice and soft from the spin cycle. Fabric softener doesn't hurt a thing. You can wash them in the cockpit, too, by stopping up the scuppers, running some water in there, and adding some Joy dishwashing liquid, which cleans well in either fresh or salt water. Put on your boots and do the Snoopy happy puppy dance. Or just go barefoot. Makes them look nice, too, if that is a thing for you.
6. With really hard rope, you may have to cut the tapered core tip completely off at the extraction point, instead of tapering it to end at a half fid length up, or wherever. This may or may not leave a very small hollow feeling place there, but you really don't weaken the splice very much at all.
7. You can also try when you extract the core, pull about one or two diameter's worth of extra core before making the first mark. This sets a tiny bit more slack in the cover. Sacrifices a couple percent of strength, maybe, but it can make the difference between a successful and unsuccessful splice.
8. Especially with new rope, sew through the splice. You can also sew through the crossover before burying, just don't leave a knot out there to catch on the cover when burying. Sewing is not done to keep the splice from pulling apart. That ain't gonna happen. Sewing is done to keep the eye from closing up, as the bury buries itself deeper under heavy strain. Okay, actually, theoretically the splice could work itself undone and pull out, but honestly I have never seen it happen, and I have spliced 12" circumference double braided ship's mooring lines and then used them to tie up very large ships and put crazy tension on them with very powerful winches. The eye is not gonna pull out if the splice is made properly. But it can close up.

I forgot to mention something that I was reminded of a few days ago. I was putting an eye in the end of a piece of 7/8" that someone had tossed in the dumpster, and it was a very tight, hard line. I had to do a lot of hammering to soften and loosen it up enough to get the crossover buried. A hammer can be a very valuable splicing tool when messing with really tough double braids.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

I forgot to mention something that I was reminded of a few days ago. I was putting an eye in the end of a piece of 7/8" that someone had tossed in the dumpster, and it was a very tight, hard line. I had to do a lot of hammering to soften and loosen it up enough to get the crossover buried. A hammer can be a very valuable splicing tool when messing with really tough double braids.

Intyeresting. I was re-examining my eye splice and compared it to some pre-made dock lines, and they were actually stiffer than mine so i guess my results weren't as bad as i thought.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

Intyeresting. I was re-examining my eye splice and compared it to some pre-made dock lines, and they were actually stiffer than mine so i guess my results weren't as bad as i thought.

As the OP we all saw your first eye splice, I hope you have improved, before putting any into use.
Not claiming to be great at it myself.
I just have a high measure of success, that’s why I review others work for a living.
Status C = reject
Status B = 🤔 not as I would of done it and where’s the detail
Status A = No Comment
There is no A+ therefore no praise.
It’s a C and I would be offended if it was offered.
I have a friend who had a sanding block maybe 14 inches long, I said “Hey that’s good where did you buy it” his reply “I didn’t, everything I make looks like it’s been bought”
You should apply the same logic to your splice and mine for that matter, anyone can half ass, something and pretend it’s ok. Which I am sure most of us do, we just don’t shout about it because deep down we know.