Halyard eye splice question.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

You guys are awesome. I posted this as a joke in my extreme frustration. I was waiting to see how long it might take for someone to call me an absolute lunatic and to step away from boats, and to never set foot on one again.

Frustrations dissolved i found a better video that was easy to follow and i FINALLY got a half way decent halyard eye splice. I really need to work on my tapering though. The area where the two lines meld together is a little 'chunky' and stiff. I think it will be ok for my jib halyard. The good splice seems pretty solid, and i whipped it to keep it from slipping. I just cant seem to master tapering though....i seem to not cut out enough or completely shred the end.

I do need to get a set of fids though. Im using the splicing wand now. It work but is a little clunky for my noob skills. I think fids would be easier for me to use.

Looks way better! Good job. Use a disposable utility knife (Olfa for instance) and snap off old blades as they start grabbing Ana no longer cut clean. Much easier to cut your tapers with a fresh new razor blade to ensure a clean, long taper cut. Replace them often.

[TheOffice]

I add chafe sleeve and use a halyard knot to attach the shackle. Jut a personal preference.

[roverhi]

I'm another for using knots to attach halyards and most sheets the reasons as Thinwater said. It looks that is plain dacron double braid. If so, that is not a good rope for a halyard as it has too much stretch and require regular attention under sail to hold proper sail shape. Use Dyneema/Spectra cored line and possibly downsize to cut the cost a bit. Doesn't have to be the very expensive super grade of exotic but a line like
NER's VPC with some Dyneema to cut down stretch. Once again use a knot to secure to the sail.

[thunderhoof]

It's a good thing that you improved your splicing technique because the polyester double braid you use requires that, when spliced, the jacket takes a significant portion of the load. This means that you must properly bury and taper the jacket in the core braid. This does make the area near the splice thicker so make sure the sheave will handle it.
I know that cruisers do not care for "high tech" line because of its cost but it has several advantages. The main one is low stretch. It is not necessary to re-tension the halyard when it starts to blow. The second is that you can use a core-dependent eye splice where only the core is buried in the core and the jacket is cut off an inch or so past the bury, then seized to the outside of the splice. This results in a splice that is not bulky or stiff near the splice and so can be hoisted with the splice close to the sheave.

[BAD ORCA]

Thank you everybody for all the great feedback. I wasnt expecting to learn this much from what started as a joke thread. Some interesting things to consider that would probably have taken me some time and failures to figure out. Since I do hope to spend a lot of time offshore eventually, these may become valuable insights. So much to learn...

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by OldGreyB

Recently went through the same frustration, to happy with the end product on this.
Major teaching moment from a local expert, was to change my fids to Ronstan FIBs. They are thin polished stainless steel, and have a internal hook, that grasps the core when threading through the braid.

Also an improvement is to tig the fibs so the longitudinal split at each end of the fib does not catch the rope fibres.

Im shopping for fids right now. I will look for them. ty.

[BAD ORCA]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

No rigger here, but I would think
a Captive Halyard Shackle would be a good idea
One less thing to not worry about loosing.
Perhaps a thimble in the loop also?
Cheers
Neil

WHEW! I went down the halyard shackle rabbit hole last night. Two hours later i emerged, confused with a seriously bad headache. I need a recovery time to let my brain try to parse something from that deluge...

[michaelratinter]

I'm with sv Grateful. I've replaced 4 of my 5 halyards and tied halyard hitches in all of them.

I eye splice my 3-strand docklines.

[HeinSdL]

I think that movie came from premiumropes.com in The Netherlands which I found very helpful myself. There is an app which can be downloaded for free called Rope Splicing which has many interesting splices explained for modern ropes in use these days.

In terms of using knots, it is recommended to not do that in view of the massive reduction in strength vs a good splice which is as strong as the rope itself.

[FTS]

My practice on my little boat is to end-for-end the main and jib halyard at least every other year, which means cutting off the halyard hitch before I can do that. I've found whipping the line just up from the halyard hitch before cutting the knot off to be easier and the whipping seems to look a little better.

The masthead sheaves are pretty tight on my boat so I'm definitely in the "hitch, not splice" camp. I don't want to find out what a jam up there looks like, and end-for-ending the line and cutting a few inches off every year or two moves the chafe around and gives me a chance to thoroughly inspect the lines.

YMMV.

Originally Posted by rbk

. . . Use a disposable utility knife (Olfa for instance) and snap off old blades as they start grabbing Ana no longer cut clean. . .

Sounds like a pro tip to me.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

In terms of using knots, it is recommended to not do that in view of the massive reduction in strength vs a good splice which is as strong as the rope itself.

Recommended by whom?

IMNSHO, Thinwater summed it up some time ago:

I've always been amused by critisism of knots for halyards.
* They don't jam in the masthead pulley
* They allow greater hoist because they are shorter than a splice with burry
* They allow for easy shortening of the halyard for wear
* They have no bearing on strnegth, since a halyard NEVER breaks at the knot. They are sized for stretch and fail due to chafe.

I'm amused when I see splices used where they provide no actual benefit, other than looking neat.

[tamicatana]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

Here is the video that really helped make it simple if anyone is interested.

The buried tail in the preview/still looks bad on two counts: too short and too abrupt.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

So i watched a video today and got a succesful eye splice on my first try. what do you think? it feels pretty strong when i pull on it. i couldnt get the rope to go all the way but its super strong. im going to use it for my main sail halyard. i figured i could use a heat gun and sort of melt some of the loose rope back together to make it look a little smoother. I thought maybe i could make my dock lines also and maybe do some halyards for my friends boat.

do you think i should use a heat gun or torch to melt it, the loose section? i know its polestyer but i dont know how easy it melts...any advice would be welcome. maybe just tape it real tight?


Do you think i should do some whipping?

That eye splice is incomplete. The core is visible and the joint where the core and cover intersect has not been buried in the splice. Its not finished and not safe to use in this condition.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by StuM

Recommended by whom?

IMNSHO, Thinwater summed it up some time ago:

I've always been amused by critisism of knots for halyards.
* They don't jam in the masthead pulley
* They allow greater hoist because they are shorter than a splice with burry
* They allow for easy shortening of the halyard for wear
* They have no bearing on strnegth, since a halyard NEVER breaks at the knot. They are sized for stretch and fail due to chafe.

I'm amused when I see splices used where they provide no actual benefit, other than looking neat.

Well... recommended by the same chaps who made that film at Premium Ropes. Knots do reduce the breaking strength much more than splices but to be honest, who cares, these ropes are pretty good these days and with the average tension on a cruiser halyard using a knot will do just fine too.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by BAD ORCA

So much to learn...

as an aside . . . . . when the bury is hard to get in - use some washing up (dish) liquid makes it a little slipperier, and pound it with a hammer and bend it back and forth a lot, and milk the cover down a lot quite firmly. And pull real real hard - using a winch or come along is allowed.

tldr - use more force of all sorts than you might think - you will not break it (or if you do it was bad already and you just discovered the flaw safely)