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Old 25-09-2018, 13:56   #1
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halyard electric winch ?

Since I started single handing my new (to me) boat I have found one of the biggest difficulties is getting the main sail up. The wire halyard is fed to a 1:1 hand winch with screw down brake located at the mast. I was thinking of replacing it with something like this Tundra Tested 3000 lb ATV/UTV Winch | Canadian Tire . which I can operate from the cockpit. Can anyone see a downside to this idea? I also expect I will need a cable lock of some kind to take the strain off the winch when the sail is up.
Any thought?
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Old 25-09-2018, 14:13   #2
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

I can't imagine that winch lasting very long on deck. If you want to go electric, you should look for something intended for marine use.

That said, I think it's totally unnecessary. A picture of your set-up would be helpful, but the Rasmus 35 has a modest mainsail. If you get things properly set up, you won't need a winch. Your manual winch should be enough to tension the luff at the end of your hoist. If you're thinking of applying more force, you're headed in the wrong direction and might break something.

Check for friction in your slides, track, masthead sheaves, etc. I'm a fan of replacing wire with Dyneema of the same size, but you might need to change your sheave to do so.
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Old 25-09-2018, 14:22   #3
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmartin View Post
I can't imagine that winch lasting very long on deck. If you want to go electric, you should look for something intended for marine use.

That said, I think it's totally unnecessary. A picture of your set-up would be helpful, but the Rasmus 35 has a modest mainsail. If you get things properly set up, you won't need a winch. Your manual winch should be enough to tension the luff at the end of your hoist. If you're thinking of applying more force, you're headed in the wrong direction and might break something.

Check for friction in your slides, track, masthead sheaves, etc. I'm a fan of replacing wire with Dyneema of the same size, but you might need to change your sheave to do so.
My main concern is staying in the cockpit so I can steer while hoisting the sail. Not looking for more force but I do see that with the amount of force that winch could supply I may break something if it were to snag.
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Old 25-09-2018, 14:28   #4
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Well you could lead the halyard back to the cockpit. I'm not sure your boat has a channel for that in the windscreen.

I dislike cockpit-lead halyards (although our current boat has them), but that's very subjective. Otherwise, I set the autopilot when motoring out and handle sails that way. Since you're on deck, it's pretty easy to keep watch for other boats, pots, buoys. If you're planning on single-handing, a reliable, easily dis/engaged autopilot will change your life
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Old 25-09-2018, 14:29   #5
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Reel type halyard winches are an abomination IMO! There is a good reason that they have been abandoned for many years!

IMO, your best plan is to remove that winch entirely, put a turning block at the mast base and lead the halyard back to the cockoit (using deck organizers if needed). May need to get an additional winch there, or may be able to lead the halyard to an existing winch via a rope clutch. This sort of setup is pretty common on boats of this size and will solve your problem.

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Old 26-09-2018, 05:54   #6
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Reel type halyard winches are an abomination IMO! There is a good reason that they have been abandoned for many years!

...

Jim
Yes. The number of people that have suffered injuries when the clutch fails and the handles windmill in reverse! BTDT!!!

The best advice was given already. Discard that winch and add a turning block at the mast base; lead the halyard to a winch on the cabin top; and, finally, buy yourself a battery powered Milwaukee right angle drill fitted with a winch-bit and you'll be good to go. (And have "electrified" all your winches!)

FWIW...
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Old 26-09-2018, 08:34   #7
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

I think you've received good advice. On my (previous) Alerion Express 38, we had a HMPE halyard led back to a small Lewmar electric winch. The mainsail had ball bearing cars (Battcars) and four full length battens. It was extremely easy to raise by hand until you got to about the last 18", and then the small electric winch, either by hand or by electricity, could trim the last bit.

I have a few suggestions:

1. Don't try to make up for a friction prone mainsail luff with more power. Fix the friction issue first.
2. Change to HMPE (high modulus polyethylene, or Spectra, or Dyneema) from the wire.
3. Consider going with a 2:1 halyard, which greatly reduces the load on the halyard, reduces the stretch, and makes it incrementally easy to hoist by hand.
4. Consider leaving the halyard at the mast. It's a reasonably highly loaded line that picks up friction with each sheave and deflection. Plus, if you want to use the gooseness "horns" to reef, you'll have to go forward anyway.

Cheers,

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Old 26-09-2018, 08:45   #8
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Reel type halyard winches are an abomination IMO! There is a good reason that they have been abandoned for many years!

IMO, your best plan is to remove that winch entirely, put a turning block at the mast base and lead the halyard back to the cockoit (using deck organizers if needed). May need to get an additional winch there, or may be able to lead the halyard to an existing winch via a rope clutch. This sort of setup is pretty common on boats of this size and will solve your problem.

Jim
Exactly.
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Old 26-09-2018, 09:01   #9
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Reel type halyard winches are an abomination IMO! There is a good reason that they have been abandoned for many years!

IMO, your best plan is to remove that winch entirely, put a turning block at the mast base and lead the halyard back to the cockoit (using deck organizers if needed). May need to get an additional winch there, or may be able to lead the halyard to an existing winch via a rope clutch. This sort of setup is pretty common on boats of this size and will solve your problem.

Jim


+1...
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Old 26-09-2018, 09:46   #10
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

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Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
My main concern is staying in the cockpit so I can steer while hoisting the sail.
This might another issue to address. You should have a way to lock the wheel to keep it head to wind. It takes me much longer to raise my main solo by winching it rather than jumping it at the mast, but if I had to manually keep the boat on course at the same time, I'd go mad. Not a good way to start a fun day!
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Old 26-09-2018, 09:51   #11
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

And another in support of Jim :-)

Someone said "fix the friction issue first". Even on very old-fashioned rigs of this type relying on slugs in a cove in the mast, or on slides on a track on the mast, to hold the luff, friction is not normally a problem if you take care to be precisely head to wind as you hoist.

To run up a sail of this size should take about 20 seconds. In days of yore, when reel winches on the mast was le dernier cri, I used to run up the sail without benefit of winch, just pullye-haulye on the halard, till the sail was very nearly up, then lay three turns on the winch and snug up with the handle.

If you are wheel steered your friction brake will hold the rudder central for the minute it takes you to go forward, and if you are tiller steered, controlling the tiller with a line from coaming to coaming will do the job.

Often in those days, we had no engine. Then we'd get drive on the boat by hoisting the genny first. Being a "hank-on", as opposed to roller furling, it would hoist on any point of sail. When the boat was moving on a beam reach using only the genny, we'd bring 'er to the eye of the wind, smartly lash the tiller, smartly whip forward and hoist the main, smartly whip back to the tiller and get 'er on a beam reach again to keep 'er footing.

Then, and only then, would we worry about perfecting the sail trim including the luff tension which was most easily controlled by means of a "Cunningham"


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Old 26-09-2018, 10:41   #12
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Hello
I have installed an electric powered Lewmar ST40 halyard winch on my C&C 37
c/w 3 push buttons around the cockpit so I can use it for MOB recovery, etc.
No pictures as yet but you can email me to get in touch: wimpel@shaw.ca.
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Old 26-09-2018, 10:56   #13
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

You have gotten suggestions, one other to consider is a low-friction mast track. We are installing a Tides system but there are others. They greatly reduce the amount of friction in the mainsail, especially if you have full length battens. Cheaper than an electric winch. I agree the Canadian Tire one would only last a number of months exposed to salt spray.
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Old 26-09-2018, 11:07   #14
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
Since I started single handing my new (to me) boat I have found one of the biggest difficulties is getting the main sail up. The wire halyard is fed to a 1:1 hand winch with screw down brake located at the mast. I was thinking of replacing it with something like this Tundra Tested 3000 lb ATV/UTV Winch | Canadian Tire . which I can operate from the cockpit. Can anyone see a downside to this idea? I also expect I will need a cable lock of some kind to take the strain off the winch when the sail is up.
Any thought?
Sounds like folly.
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Old 26-09-2018, 11:32   #15
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Re: halyard electric winch ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
My main concern is staying in the cockpit so I can steer while hoisting the sail. Not looking for more force but I do see that with the amount of force that winch could supply I may break something if it were to snag.
Like others have said the power winch is dealing with a symptom, and not a problem.

First, if you are single handing, you MUST have a decent autopilot. With the engine on, the AP should be holding you more or less into the wind. If you don't have an AP get one----- yesterday.

Second, my personal boat is a Tartan 33, about the same height mast. My 63 yo body can still get the first 15+ feet up without help. At that point, I put two wraps on the winch and grind it up. If there is significant friction, you should investigate that before something breaks. Since Murphy mates on all boats, it will fail at night, when you are tired and it is blowing like snot.

Third, consider bringing the main halyard back to the cockpit. Depending on how far you need to motor before you can raise sail, the sail ties can even be removed at the dock. Lowering and flaking the sail is easy. Since the main halyard is coming over the deck I can use my foot as a brake and lower each flake. Yes I still go forward to reef, but with a marked halyard that is easy.
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