Get rid of it before it gets you.

[Jim Cate]

Well, I guess yet another winch ditching post is due...

When we bought the first Insatiable, a retired IOR one-tonner, the main halyard was such a reel type monster, mounted quite low on the mast. This, coupled with a luff rope into a mast groove type sail meant that hoisting the main took two crew, one to feed the luff rope into the mast and one groveling on his knees, winding, and winding... and winding some more. A fairly tall mast and a winch with low gearing. Reefing was similarly awkward. The first modification I made after the delivery trip from San Diego to SF was to remove that winch and repurpose one of the other four conventional winches as the main halyard winch. Seldom has a job been more welcome. It had not yet hurt me or crew, but it was inevitable... and worrying about it wasn't helping my state of mind.

What a pleasure it was to be able to hand over hand the sail up to near the top, feeding with one hand, hoisting with the other and then putting the final tension on with the winch. Adding slugs to the luff helped too, for then there was no more feeding and life was better yet

Took a while longer to change all the wire to rope halyards, but when we set out cruising, there were no wires up the mast that didn't have electrons running through them.

I can't imagine why some folks find reel winches tolerable let alone preferable. Safety aside, they are just a poor way to get a sail up a mast... and from memory, they were more expensive than equivalent drum winches.

And Matt, I hope that the Admiral/chief med officer sewed that finger back on facing the right direction...

Jim

[bailsout]

A Swanson 42, that sounds too big for me. My Herreshoff 28, 35’ with bowsprit and mizzen boom has Mast winches for wire/braided rope and sheet winches for the headsails. I don’t even know where my winch handles are. Nice having smaller sails. And no windlass. What year were these Barlow winches in vogue?

[GILow]

Yes, I sometimes miss the days of hauling up a sail without needing a winch.

I'd say the winches date back to 1980 or thereabouts. Full points for durability at least.

Must check with original owner to see how many fingers they've eaten so far.

Originally Posted by bailsout

A Swanson 42, that sounds too big for me. My Herreshoff 28, 35’ with bowsprit and mizzen boom has Mast winches for wire/braided rope and sheet winches for the headsails. I don’t even know where my winch handles are. Nice having smaller sails. And no windlass. What year were these Barlow winches in vogue?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by kryg

What is interesting, you're not a lone in this kind of procrastination! Why is it a human tries to live with a faulty bit of gear as it's bolted on the boat by the manufacture? In my case there are a number of things on my boat I know will fail one day, yet I keep an eye on them till they harm me again and then and let them be?? Madness. Good luck, I hope yours was not an important digit! [emoji2]

The frustrating bit is that I made a considered decision not to change it in January when I had a good opportunity. I made this decision as I was about tackle a 600 mile passage and didn't want to make any big changes beforehand.

Oops.

[kryg]

Agreed, That is why I/ we sail to get away once in a while from the blind nanny rule enforcers!

Originally Posted by cal40john

Health and Safety would condemn all sailboats as unnecessary risks.
The few encounters I've had with health and safety results in ridiculous requirements making the task they review near impossible to accomplish.

[BlackHeron]

No worries. Slap a bandaid on the boo-boo and ship it.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

No worries. Slap a bandaid on the boo-boo and ship it.

Sorry, I must have missed it, how many circumnavs was it ??

I'm having a bit of a deja vu 'Rebel something or other' moment again.

[BlackHeron]

So is the point to simply chug around the circumference of the planet or to just enjoy "sailing around" ON it?

I didn't know there was a required route we must take, with progress being judged by how many laps one has made. Is this like NASCAR, and going around and around in big circles competing for the hallowed checkered flag?

I thought life was about the journey and not the destination. God forbid one just sail around ON the globe, where the winds and weather take them, and just enjoy the places that are visited, instead of worrying about their progress in going around and around it.

I guess I am wrong then. Thanks for pointing out my navigational error. We'll get right on finishing our first lap before everyone passes us again...

[Nicholson58]

Polish it nicely, mount to a nice piece of varnished wood. Present as a trophy Or give it to your favorite bartender for display. It might be worth a few free beers.

Sorry about the boat-bite.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by GILow

Yes, I sometimes miss the days of hauling up a sail without needing a winch.

I'd say the winches date back to 1980 or thereabouts. Full points for durability at least.

Must check with original owner to see how many fingers they've eaten so far.

first one that bit me was 1975...and not brand new then. i'd say closer to 1970.

cheers,

[GILow]

Originally Posted by chrisr

first one that bit me was 1975...and not brand new then. i'd say closer to 1970.



cheers,

Could be, but it would have had to have been secondhand as the boat was built in 1980.

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

...

I wonder how many folks here even leave the marina...what a joke this forum is.

Does tht mean we've seen the last of you?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GILow

Hi all,

For the last ten years I’ve lived with this halyard winch, knowing full well it is a murderous bastard just itching to kill me in one of a dozen ways.

I’ve worked around the worst of the problems related to handles flying off and breaking limbs, noses, faces etc by religiously keeping the handle out of the winch at all times.

So, therefore, when it managed to drag my finger into the mechanism the other night I couldn’t reach the handle to wind it back.

Thankfully the admiral is calm under pressure and a qualified nurse, so she was able to come and extract me before staunching the worst of the bleeding.

The jury is out on whether I’ll lose my fingernail, but there’s no doubt I’ll have an impressive scar. Cleaning up the blood from around the boat will take a while too.

Anyway, this a call to any of us who, like me, have been intending to replace these winches to do it now. It may have taken ten years, but it finally got me, don’t let yours get you too.Attachment 239745

The beginning of wisdom is recognizing inherently unsafe equipment and making the correct decision to get rid of it Good on you Gilow.

I grew up with those infernal things. I do have all my fingers, but then I never kidded myself to think that I'm so skillful and so cool that I'll never make a mistake with it. They are inherently dangerous, outrageously dangerous, and I wouldn't have one on a boat. Friends don't let friends use wire rope winches.

I had wire rope halyards even on this boat -- that's how recent the technology is. But they were spliced to rope and used normal winches. I replaced then for dyneema which runs fine in the particular sheaves I have.

Take a hike to the tops and carefully inspect the sheaves -- most made in the last 30 or 40 years are actually capable of taking both rope and wire -- there is a notch in the middle for wire, and wider part for rope. Mine were like that. Then, check to see that they're not worn and not any sharp places made by the wire over the years. If yes, just replace them -- it's not usually that hard (easier with the mast down, however, cuz you might have to take the masthead truck off -- and believe me -- changing this system out is WELL worth taking the mast down). If not, then Bob's your uncle -- just pull the new halyards up with the old, install normal winches, and you're done.

As to the halyards -- dyneema is so much better than wire it's not even funny. Wire is pretty good from the point of view of stretch, but horrible from the point of view of flexibility. So getting the sails down is much, much, much easier as the dyneema just sings through the sheaves. And you get much much better control of luff tension as you don't have the "stiction" of less flexible wire. On top of that, it's much lighter, much easier to handle, much easier to splice.

You will want double braid racing grade sized for stretch, not strength. Strip the part of the halyard which runs through the sheaves at the top, and be sure to lock the cover where you strip it. Racing grade dyneema is essential because the cheaper stuff has too loose cover. Since your clutches grab the cover, you'll have problems if it doesn't fit tightly or isn't well locked at the strip.

You're going to be really happy you did this. Safety is far from the only benefit. While you're at it, look at the rest of your running rigging. All of mine -- miles of it -- is dyneema. The 12mm racing dyneema mainsheet, really long because I havev triple purchase, end of a 6 meter boom sheeting -- is stronger, more flexible, and like 1/4 of the weight of the 14mm poly mainsheet it replaced. Transformed sailing -- now the mainsheet runs freely, can be trimmed finely, and I can pick it up with one hand. Dyneema headsail sheets bring similar benefits (on my boat, 14mm dyneema vs 16mm poly). I even have dyneema furling lines now. It's the best thing since sliced bread.

[GILow]

Thanks Dockhead, great list.

I’m guessing your Royal DSM shares are doing well too.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GILow

Thanks Dockhead, great list.

I’m guessing your Royal DSM shares are doing well too.

Ha, ha. I wish.



All my running rigging is racing grade dyneema double braid, mostly Marlowe. It's lovely to handle and sail trimming is so much enhanced by the lack of stretch.


I also use a lot of single-braid dyneema on board. I bought a ton of it to make a Jordan Series Drogue before my trip to the Arctic a couple of years ago. Or not dyneema, but a nearly identical HMWPE cordage called Acera Amundesen, which our SeaworthyLass, CF's head mistress of knots and cordage, discovered and turned me on to. At about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of dyneema.


Let us know how you get on. Are you planning to commit the old winches to the deep?