Furling Mainsail or Not ?

[savoir]

Furling main is a very expensive solution on a 31 footer. I would recommend sticking with traditional slab reefing but anyway single line reefing is probably closer to what you want. Here is Harken's view on how you do it.

http://www.harken.com/pdf/4171.pdf

Harken One Line Reefing - YouTube

Unlike the guy in the video you should mark your main halyard and move it straight to that point once only, rather than set and reset like he does.

[Lagoon4us]

Agree there just Jiffy reefing with a bag or lazy jacks making sure all 3 reefs are prior reeved.

We have the Profurl gear but you could nearly buy a 31' for what they charge....

Cheers

[rockDAWG]

Originally Posted by Ukaliq

Furling Mainsail or Not ?

This question reminds me the question I asked my Dad?

Dad, should I marry a blonde?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Ukaliq

Hi. I've just joined the forum. We've had an offer on our house and have an eye on a certain 36' yacht to live aboard with our two small children. The boat we like looks great, except it has an in-mast furling mainsail - a Facnor, installed 2009. I've never sailed with one of these before, and I have some concerns about technical hitches that might potentially occur. Are they mechanically complicated? Is it possible to rig a regular mainsail if something happens to the furler? Any advice or opinions much appreciated. Ukaliq

Two of these threads right at the same time!

First question: Is it in-mast, or is at retrofitted behind-the-mast? Avoid the latter type like the plague!

In general, they are very reliable so I wouldn't worry about that too much. The Selden furling masts have a separate track for a trysail or regular mainsail; I don't know about others, but I don't think you really need it.

I have an in-mast furling main on a 54' boat specifically designed for it -- it doesn't suck at all, but I would never want one on a 36' boat. You lose more performance (especially if the rig wasn't specifically designed for it) on a smaller boat, and you don't really need the advantages of in-mast furling on a boat that size -- flaking and covering a slab-reefing main is just not that much trouble.

If it's the Facnor behind-the-mast system, you can take it off. You will need a new mainsail and you might need to have the mast out, so it will not be cheap. But if you need a new sail anyway it might be tolerable.

[muskoka]

On a boat under 40' I'd go with lazyjacks every time.

We had in-mast furling on our 32 footer and I didn't like it because the sail just didn't perform. The sails performance was compromised because the sail was small, no roach, no battens and the mast relatively large. The actual furling mechanism was fine.

We sailed on a Swan 53 with in-mast furling and that seemed to work, but on smaller boats it's really not great.

Our current boat is a 40' cat (55 sm mainsail) with lazyjacks/sailbag which works very well - my only improvement would be an electric winch because the sail is so heavy that it is hard work raising her.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

9/10 no issues, if the system is well installed and well trimmed/maintained.

Depending on how you sail, the furling mainsail is either a bliss or a curse, and at times a mixture of both.

I would definitely like one on a weekender used in home waters. b.

Hmm, old thread dredged up, but agree with Barnakiel, for husband and wife (who doesn't pull string) I recon it has a lot going for it and after a test sail was one of the reasons we bought the boat.

Pete

[s/v Jedi]

In-mast furling is one big nightmare and a disaster waiting to happen. I sometimes wake up in sweat at night, go up on deck to check that I still have my full batten batwing sails so I can sleep again

[goboatingnow]

In-mast furling is one big nightmare and a disaster waiting to happen. I sometimes wake up in sweat at night, go up on deck to check that I still have my full batten batwing sails so I can sleep again

thats why the Sailing Gods put the rest of us , who understand in-mast, on the planet, so you could keep sleeping peacefully

[seagamin]

Originally Posted by Normanby

Silly question from an inexperienced new-comer:
How about a mainsail on a furler outside, just aft, of the mast, with no boom at all?
I've occasionally seen boomless rigs.
Would that be a bad idea because you could never get the sail flat enough to work properly?

I rebuilt and reworked a Westerly Centaur, do to my age and health plus single handing came up with a rather non conventional rig. I have used this method on most of my vessels (five) over 60 years of sailing, my grandfather taught me these things years ago.

Sea Gamin is rigged with; 145% roller reefed Genoa, 110% roller reefed mainsail (behind the main mast) and a Asymmetrical Spinnaker. All roller reefing is Harken MKIV. Over the transom there is an arch used for a solar panel, on each side of the arch there are a set of Fiddle Blocks attached to the Clew. Racing is not an issue with me as the "Journey is the Destination". After refit Sea Gamin was launched August 2009 and averages just over 1000 nautical miles per year with fuel consumption of 200 Litres annually through a Volvo Penta 2003 diesel. I sail the British Columbia coast plus San Juan Islands. Average speeds are "Unity" √WL for cruising and 5.5 kts when in a hurry. Sustained speeds of over 6 knots is very fatiguing after 4~5 hours. There are many pros and cons to this arrangement as the forum will surely expand upon. a few Cons are; slower sailing, the slot between mast and Luff, additional lines in the cockpit and not boom for tent are just a few, Pros; no boom to get hit by, ease and speed of reefing and stowing, much less noise.
The photo is quite large in detail and can be enlarged significantly for detail.
Being an old techy, Sea Gamin is well outfitted with most amenities, is short there is a lot hidden into 26 feet. One other photo an be viewed by searching Sea Gamin on Google and look for Flickr Photo.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, seagamin.

[CAELESTIS]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

In-mast furling is one big nightmare and a disaster waiting to happen. I sometimes wake up in sweat at night, go up on deck to check that I still have my full batten batwing sails so I can sleep again

When they put them on VO70's, I will consider it.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Nick the issues you mention never really occur in practical situations. Firstly the stability of most modern designed includes calculations for in mast. Secondly booms on most cruising yachts are so high ( especially with modern high freeboard yachts ) that the specific boom in the water issue isn't there.

In reality there's little difference now
between the two for a conventional cruising boat. Roach area solutions are available for in-mast including inflatable battens , vertical battens and flexible spring battens that can furl.

If you want the ultimate then sure get a solid wing mast 

Dave

One opinion or the other? which one?

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Vertical battens and in mast furling, once and never again. The jam ups inside the mast are spectactular

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by neilpride

One opinion or the other? which one?

Its the same option , in mast is fine , vertical battens however can be the work of the devil. Be use they can drop out of the sail inside the mast and cause spectacular foul ups.

Dave

[Scurvy]

It seems to me, from reading this entire thread one afternoon, that the loudest voices against in mast furling mains are the same people who have never had them. Meanwhile, the market share for in mast furlers has gone thru the roof.

The detractors quote lots of techno babble about sail shape, roach, center of effort, blah blah blah. Then their analysis of how the in mast furlers detract are pretty much disqualified by equally technical responses, with pictures.

Here is an observation....if in mast furling is so god awful bad and dangerous, where is the evidence? So many boats have it now. You'd expect that if it was as bad as Jedi et al make it out to be, there would be lots of bad accidents to talk about. Lots of stories about near death disasters. Lots of stories about bad equipment and switching out equipment. Where are all of these stories? Where is the evidence?

Facts are important. They should be the basis of any "opinion" because when they are not, the opinion is as worthy as an *******. Everybody has one, and they are just not that worthwhile to pay attention to.

Here in the US, we have a politcal party that acts like this. The republicans deny science, they deny math, the deny voting rights to millions. They have no interest in facts, just beliefs and opinion. Yet they have the loudest voice in the room.

In this debate, it seems clear that the facts are on the side of the in-mast furler crowd. Slab reefing is like buggy whips. They worked great. Everyone who learns to drive should have to start in a buggy, with a whip. Me? I live in the post 1990 world.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Scurvy

It seems to me, from reading this entire thread one afternoon, that the loudest voices against in mast furling mains are the same people who have never had them. Meanwhile, the market share for in mast furlers has gone thru the roof.

The detractors quote lots of techno babble about sail shape, roach, center of effort, blah blah blah. Then their analysis of how the in mast furlers detract are pretty much disqualified by equally technical responses, with pictures.

Here is an observation....if in mast furling is so god awful bad and dangerous, where is the evidence? So many boats have it now. You'd expect that if it was as bad as Jedi et al make it out to be, there would be lots of bad accidents to talk about. Lots of stories about near death disasters. Lots of stories about bad equipment and switching out equipment. Where are all of these stories? Where is the evidence?

Facts are important. They should be the basis of any "opinion" because when they are not, the opinion is as worthy as an *******. Everybody has one, and they are just not that worthwhile to pay attention to.

Here in the US, we have a politcal party that acts like this. The republicans deny science, they deny math, the deny voting rights to millions. They have no interest in facts, just beliefs and opinion. Yet they have the loudest voice in the room.

In this debate, it seems clear that the facts are on the side of the in-mast furler crowd. Slab reefing is like buggy whips. They worked great. Everyone who learns to drive should have to start in a buggy, with a whip. Me? I live in the post 1990 world.

Its like evrything in a boat, with proper use they work, in the wrong hands they jam!! take this example, last year we get a old couple with a Zspar in mast furling jamed, they come to us asking for help to unfree the sail in the slot, truste me if i say we even use block purchases and brutal forcé , nothing, we give it 2 options , rip the sail in pieces to clear the jam or unstep the mast and remove the furler by the mast head and clear the mess trying to save the sail, they choose to unstep the mast, 1500 U$ later they have the mast in place with the furling unit working again, lesson learned, keep tensión when furling the sail....