Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-10-2020, 12:05   #1
Registered User
 
Free Rider's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 20
Does my soft shackles looks right?

Hi,
I just tied my first soft shackle using mostly instructions I found here made by Seaworthy Lass (a very big thank you by the way!!).

I am at the step were I need to put the shackle on a winch and tighten it. But I notice that the noose seems a bit large. I have made it to hold 8 rope diameters as per the instructions. Does it look ok to you?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PA310023.jpg
Views:	257
Size:	408.5 KB
ID:	226204   Click image for larger version

Name:	PA310024.jpg
Views:	229
Size:	382.9 KB
ID:	226205  

Free Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 12:25   #2
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,628
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Rider View Post
Hi,
I just tied my first soft shackle using mostly instructions I found here made by Seaworthy Lass (a very big thank you by the way!!).

I am at the step were I need to put the shackle on a winch and tighten it. But I notice that the noose seems a bit large. I have made it to hold 8 rope diameters as per the instructions. Does it look ok to you?

Impossible to tell until it is around something, pulling on the two strands equally. It should tighten up to nearly no gap. Yes, noose size is one of the more critical factors in tying a soft shackle and should be locked into place with a pin or something similar before starting the stopper knot.


If it is loose, use it for something less critical and start on the next one. Or try to tighten the over-long leg through the knot. Should be doable if it is not too tight.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 13:20   #3
Registered User
 
Free Rider's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 20
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

I'll try doing the next one smaller.
I can't tighten it by shortening the legs because of the brummel lock. It will have to stay as it is.

Edit : I just saw your signature : two forums, two avatars! Thank you again for the help!
Free Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 14:25   #4
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,628
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Rider View Post
I'll try doing the next one smaller.
I can't tighten it by shortening the legs because of the brummel lock. It will have to stay as it is.

Edit : I just saw your signature : two forums, two avatars! Thank you again for the help!

I would eliminate the lock. It is too restrictive. This is my favorite:
https://l-36.com/soft_shackle_9.php
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 14:27   #5
Registered User
 
Free Rider's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 20
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Ok I just went back to the shackle and you are right : I can shorten one leg to make the noose tighter. Then I have to work it back trough the button knot but it works! Thanks again!
Free Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 15:14   #6
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auckland
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 1,824
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Rider View Post
Hi,

I just tied my first soft shackle using mostly instructions I found here made by Seaworthy Lass (a very big thank you by the way!!).



I am at the step were I need to put the shackle on a winch and tighten it. But I notice that the noose seems a bit large. I have made it to hold 8 rope diameters as per the instructions. Does it look ok to you?

I copied all of SWL’s instructions into a couple of documents. Here’s what she wrote about the noose (note that this in reference to her ‘high strength soft shackle’):
“Keep pulling until you have a noose at the end that is large enough to tightly hold ​8 x​ the diameter of the line. Only 4 is needed to hold the 4 lots of line passing through it, but this super tight grip will create a sharp throat angle and weaken the noose. Also there is no room for error in the button tying position. If the legs ultimately shift slightly and the noose becomes even a whisker smaller than able to hold 4 x line diameter, then the loading is on one leg only and strength skydives.
It is important to make it larger than 4 x. ​The noose on many commercial soft shackles I have seen is way too small (as it is on many of the instructions presented online) and this will limit their strength.”

So, you can use any number between 4x and 8x, with a larger noose providing more assurance of higher strength. But if you also don’t want the shackle falling open when unloaded, you’ll want a smaller (4x) noose. The solution is to use stronger line. I built ours with 6x noose opening and one size stronger line.
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 15:24   #7
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,628
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
I copied all of SWL’s instructions into a couple of documents. Here’s what she wrote about the noose (note that this in reference to her ‘high strength soft shackle’):
“Keep pulling until you have a noose at the end that is large enough to tightly hold ​8 x​ the diameter of the line. Only 4 is needed to hold the 4 lots of line passing through it, but this super tight grip will create a sharp throat angle and weaken the noose. Also there is no room for error in the button tying position. If the legs ultimately shift slightly and the noose becomes even a whisker smaller than able to hold 4 x line diameter, then the loading is on one leg only and strength skydives.
It is important to make it larger than 4 x. ​The noose on many commercial soft shackles I have seen is way too small (as it is on many of the instructions presented online) and this will limit their strength.”

So, you can use any number between 4x and 8x, with a larger noose providing more assurance of higher strength. But if you also don’t want the shackle falling open when unloaded, you’ll want a smaller (4x) noose. The solution is to use stronger line. I built ours with 6x noose opening and one size stronger line.

The flip side of this argument is...
  • During strength testing, the shackles break in the knot, not at the noose, so the effect of a narrow throat angle is theoretical, not practical.
  • They normally fail somewhere else due to chafe.
  • Most soft shackles are way over strength, because the minimum size is too hard to work with the fingers, particularly when cold and wet. Go oversized.
  • A loose noose increases the risk of the soft shackle coming off at low load, when a sail is flogging. This is the greater risk in many or most applications.
So I differ. A tight noose is better, primarily for the last reason.


Remember also that the noose can not tighten past a critical angle (about 90 degrees included angle) due to the rules of physics and friction. Just can't. Try it.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2020, 16:30   #8
Registered User
 
Free Rider's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 20
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

end result :
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PA310027.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	409.8 KB
ID:	226212  
Free Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 09:25   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
Boat: Beneteau 343
Posts: 407
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

That is not how I tie mine. This YouTube is how I learned to do it: https://youtu.be/qWz_DIXx-Wc

I guess there is more than one way to do it.
EmeraldCoastSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 09:33   #10
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,628
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor View Post
That is not how I tie mine. This YouTube is how I learned to do it: https://youtu.be/qWz_DIXx-Wc

I guess there is more than one way to do it.

It depends on the USE. the open style is much easier to work with, but generally suited to longer lengths and more susceptible to snagging.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 12:01   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West Sussex, United Kingdom
Boat: Tradewind 33, 33 foot, Parker 27 , 26 foot
Posts: 252
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

I'd answer but I'm not going to get shot down again by Evan Starzinger who is often on this forum and would give you a much more definitive answer.!
Martkimwat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 13:30   #12
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auckland
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 1,824
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor View Post
That is not how I tie mine. This YouTube is how I learned to do it: https://youtu.be/qWz_DIXx-Wc

I guess there is more than one way to do it.

There are different ways to make soft shackles, depending on the ultimate strength that you want. They aren’t alternative methods for the same strength.

The soft shackle freerider made is from the high strength soft shackle design that seaworthylass provided detailed instructions for (covered extensively in a few threads). The most obvious difference is that the legs are buried in the shackle rather than coming out the top of the knot. This change increases the strength dramatically - basically from 1x to 2x of the individual strand strength.

Before burying the legs

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1331.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	207.6 KB
ID:	226269

After burying the legs. The shackle must be longer so as to have enough leg bury room.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1333.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	320.1 KB
ID:	226270
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1334.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	444.0 KB
ID:	226271  
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 15:20   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: None at present--between vessels. Ex Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 1,310
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Just undo it and re-make it. Not a biggie.

OR you could leave it as is and use the loop to make a Lark's Head around the neck--losing some of the shackle coil in so doing.
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 15:23   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: West Palm Beach
Boat: Hunter 37C
Posts: 110
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

The diamond knot looks wrong to me at first glance. Maybe a little loose looking?
And as others have said the eye is way to big.
Sailing Ohm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 15:41   #15
Registered User
 
Free Rider's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 20
Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing Ohm View Post
The diamond knot looks wrong to me at first glance. Maybe a little loose looking?
And as others have said the eye is way to big.
I managed to shorten one of the legs to make the noose smaller (see post # 5). Also, the button knot has not been tightened yet using a winch or something similar. I'll do that when I get to the boat.
Free Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
snap shackles (vs) regular shackles ? Navi2016 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 23 26-03-2017 09:32
More work: soft shackles s/v Jedi Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 18 08-05-2014 08:15
So how Strong are Soft Shackles? Paul L Anchoring & Mooring 83 14-01-2014 16:17
Soft Shackles - release under pressure? Paul L Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 14-06-2013 14:44
Making Your Own Soft Shackles seandepagnier Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 12 31-01-2011 18:48

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.