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31-10-2020, 12:05
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 29
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Does my soft shackles looks right?
Hi,
I just tied my first soft shackle using mostly instructions I found here made by Seaworthy Lass (a very big thank you by the way!!).
I am at the step were I need to put the shackle on a winch and tighten it. But I notice that the noose seems a bit large. I have made it to hold 8 rope diameters as per the instructions. Does it look ok to you?
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31-10-2020, 12:25
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#2
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,567
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Rider
Hi,
I just tied my first soft shackle using mostly instructions I found here made by Seaworthy Lass (a very big thank you by the way!!).
I am at the step were I need to put the shackle on a winch and tighten it. But I notice that the noose seems a bit large. I have made it to hold 8 rope diameters as per the instructions. Does it look ok to you?
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Impossible to tell until it is around something, pulling on the two strands equally. It should tighten up to nearly no gap. Yes, noose size is one of the more critical factors in tying a soft shackle and should be locked into place with a pin or something similar before starting the stopper knot.
If it is loose, use it for something less critical and start on the next one. Or try to tighten the over-long leg through the knot. Should be doable if it is not too tight.
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31-10-2020, 13:20
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 29
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
I'll try doing the next one smaller.
I can't tighten it by shortening the legs because of the brummel lock. It will have to stay as it is.
Edit : I just saw your signature : two forums, two avatars! Thank you again for the help!
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31-10-2020, 14:25
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#4
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,567
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Rider
I'll try doing the next one smaller.
I can't tighten it by shortening the legs because of the brummel lock. It will have to stay as it is.
Edit : I just saw your signature : two forums, two avatars! Thank you again for the help!
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I would eliminate the lock. It is too restrictive. This is my favorite:
https://l-36.com/soft_shackle_9.php
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31-10-2020, 14:27
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 29
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Ok I just went back to the shackle and you are right : I can shorten one leg to make the noose tighter. Then I have to work it back trough the button knot but it works! Thanks again!
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31-10-2020, 15:14
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,804
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Rider
Hi,
I just tied my first soft shackle using mostly instructions I found here made by Seaworthy Lass (a very big thank you by the way!!).
I am at the step were I need to put the shackle on a winch and tighten it. But I notice that the noose seems a bit large. I have made it to hold 8 rope diameters as per the instructions. Does it look ok to you?
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I copied all of SWL’s instructions into a couple of documents. Here’s what she wrote about the noose (note that this in reference to her ‘high strength soft shackle’):
“Keep pulling until you have a noose at the end that is large enough to tightly hold 8 x the diameter of the line. Only 4 is needed to hold the 4 lots of line passing through it, but this super tight grip will create a sharp throat angle and weaken the noose. Also there is no room for error in the button tying position. If the legs ultimately shift slightly and the noose becomes even a whisker smaller than able to hold 4 x line diameter, then the loading is on one leg only and strength skydives.
It is important to make it larger than 4 x. The noose on many commercial soft shackles I have seen is way too small (as it is on many of the instructions presented online) and this will limit their strength.”
So, you can use any number between 4x and 8x, with a larger noose providing more assurance of higher strength. But if you also don’t want the shackle falling open when unloaded, you’ll want a smaller (4x) noose. The solution is to use stronger line. I built ours with 6x noose opening and one size stronger line.
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31-10-2020, 15:24
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#7
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,567
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty
I copied all of SWL’s instructions into a couple of documents. Here’s what she wrote about the noose (note that this in reference to her ‘high strength soft shackle’):
“Keep pulling until you have a noose at the end that is large enough to tightly hold 8 x the diameter of the line. Only 4 is needed to hold the 4 lots of line passing through it, but this super tight grip will create a sharp throat angle and weaken the noose. Also there is no room for error in the button tying position. If the legs ultimately shift slightly and the noose becomes even a whisker smaller than able to hold 4 x line diameter, then the loading is on one leg only and strength skydives.
It is important to make it larger than 4 x. The noose on many commercial soft shackles I have seen is way too small (as it is on many of the instructions presented online) and this will limit their strength.”
So, you can use any number between 4x and 8x, with a larger noose providing more assurance of higher strength. But if you also don’t want the shackle falling open when unloaded, you’ll want a smaller (4x) noose. The solution is to use stronger line. I built ours with 6x noose opening and one size stronger line.
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The flip side of this argument is...
- During strength testing, the shackles break in the knot, not at the noose, so the effect of a narrow throat angle is theoretical, not practical.
- They normally fail somewhere else due to chafe.
- Most soft shackles are way over strength, because the minimum size is too hard to work with the fingers, particularly when cold and wet. Go oversized.
- A loose noose increases the risk of the soft shackle coming off at low load, when a sail is flogging. This is the greater risk in many or most applications.
So I differ. A tight noose is better, primarily for the last reason.
Remember also that the noose can not tighten past a critical angle (about 90 degrees included angle) due to the rules of physics and friction. Just can't. Try it.
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31-10-2020, 16:30
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 29
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
end result :
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01-11-2020, 08:25
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
Boat: Beneteau 343
Posts: 536
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
That is not how I tie mine. This YouTube is how I learned to do it: https://youtu.be/qWz_DIXx-Wc
I guess there is more than one way to do it.
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01-11-2020, 08:33
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#10
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,567
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor
That is not how I tie mine. This YouTube is how I learned to do it: https://youtu.be/qWz_DIXx-Wc
I guess there is more than one way to do it.
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It depends on the USE. the open style is much easier to work with, but generally suited to longer lengths and more susceptible to snagging.
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01-11-2020, 11:01
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West Sussex, United Kingdom
Boat: Tradewind 33, 33 foot, Parker 27 , 26 foot
Posts: 496
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
I'd answer but I'm not going to get shot down again by Evan Starzinger who is often on this forum and would give you a much more definitive answer.!
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01-11-2020, 12:30
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,804
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor
That is not how I tie mine. This YouTube is how I learned to do it: https://youtu.be/qWz_DIXx-Wc
I guess there is more than one way to do it.
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There are different ways to make soft shackles, depending on the ultimate strength that you want. They aren’t alternative methods for the same strength.
The soft shackle freerider made is from the high strength soft shackle design that seaworthylass provided detailed instructions for (covered extensively in a few threads). The most obvious difference is that the legs are buried in the shackle rather than coming out the top of the knot. This change increases the strength dramatically - basically from 1x to 2x of the individual strand strength.
Before burying the legs
After burying the legs. The shackle must be longer so as to have enough leg bury room.
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01-11-2020, 14:20
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: None at present--between vessels. Ex Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 1,475
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Just undo it and re-make it. Not a biggie.
OR you could leave it as is and use the loop to make a Lark's Head around the neck--losing some of the shackle coil in so doing.
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01-11-2020, 14:23
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: West Palm Beach
Boat: Hunter 37C
Posts: 178
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
The diamond knot looks wrong to me at first glance. Maybe a little loose looking?
And as others have said the eye is way to big.
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01-11-2020, 14:41
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Boat: Offshore 33 cat ketch
Posts: 29
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Re: Does my soft shackles looks right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing Ohm
The diamond knot looks wrong to me at first glance. Maybe a little loose looking?
And as others have said the eye is way to big.
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I managed to shorten one of the legs to make the noose smaller (see post # 5). Also, the button knot has not been tightened yet using a winch or something similar. I'll do that when I get to the boat.
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