Dismasted at sea in the Bahamas, now what

[BelizeRumRunner]

Not insured because the mast is 20 years old? That does not seem right. They insured an older boat with older parts and based their premium on that. Unless it is specifically stated as an exclusion in your policy I would pursue legal recourse against them.
In the US there are insurance commissioners that keep them honest. What insurance company did you use? We all want to know who to avoid.

[Clivevon]

Am wondering was it because the mast was 20 years old, which does not seem right, or actually because the mast rigging was 20 years old, which would be more understandable?
Shame you had to ditch the mast so you cannot see what actually failed but understandable at the time.
If the failure was provably a recently replaced part, you might have been able to pursue the rigger.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

Complex shapes of course are difficult to accurately describe in words alone. It seems that you are limited to tracing or photographing. Probably the best you can do is take a picture and add some basic dimensions in a basic graphics program such as "Paint". Paint seems a bit awkward to use, but you can learn to add lines, arrows, and text once you play around with it a while. This will not make a scale drawing, as scale is not transferred through the various media. But your basic dimensions will be there as text.



If a graphics program take too much time to figure out, an impression of the "socket" can be made on stiff paper or thin cardboard. Hold the paper steady on the top edge, and press over the edges to form an impression or crease in the paper. The impression can then be traced with a pen for clarity. Dimensions can be added. Then take a photo of the finished drawing or scan it. I've used this method for fabricating plenty of small parts. Your initial drawing will be to scale, but scale will not transfer through various media though.



Note that a digital or vernier caliper may be required to get precise dimensions.

Sometimes it is easier to replace the "socket", or mast step, as it is properly called. A new mast often comes with a new mast step, to be sure.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by DeValency

so sorry to hear.

Your chances to find the right rigging anywhere in the Caribbean are very slim and shipping from Europe or the US is going to be very expensive and delay you for months. Would suggest motoring to Florida and order everything there.

Do you have relevant experience? Why would you say this? There are quite aa few good riggers, lots of parts, and expertise, in various parts of the Caribbean, and it doesn't take that much longer, from the US. Just off the top of my head, I could list facilities in Puerto Rico, the BVI, St. Maarten, Antigua, Martinique, Grenada and Trinidad, and that is just ones I know!



IF you think about it, with just the huge number of actively sailed charter boats, is this not logical? It certainly is a fact.

[contrail]

To clarify some aspects of insurance: Policies either replace "new for old", which are considerably more expensive policies, or they depreciate to a "market value". In that case, various categories of things are depreciated an amount specified, over a period of years. And there is often a residual value, beyond which it cannot be depreciated. In my case, after my boat was 15 years old, the insurers would not insure "new for old" and only offered the depreciating policy. I had a policy that depreciated the mast at 5% per year, with a residual value of either 10 or 20%, don't remember which. These policies are less expensive, and often are the only thing available for older boats. Labor for repairs is generally not depreciated, so there is motivation to repair rather than replace. One needs to check the coverage clauses, and, whilst I am no great fan of the insurance industry, it is also not fair to simply say, "it was in the fine print, which, of course, I did not bother to read." And, speaking of thinking this all through, it often amounts to insignificant coverage, unless the boat is totaled, and unrepairable, because if it is repairable, and they depreciate all the items, that amount may not rise to the threshold of when they declare the boat a constructive loss.


Sadly, in many conversations with folks, comparing insurance policies, I have yet to meet someone who actually knew which kind of policy they had. Instead, great pride was taken in having found a "great deal", in other words, the least expensive. And those policies are almost always the depreciating ones. And, don't ask how I know this!

[SV_Lusca]

Originally Posted by contrail

To clarify some aspects of insurance: Policies either replace "new for old", which are considerably more expensive policies, or they depreciate to a "market value". In that case, various categories of things are depreciated an amount specified, over a period of years. And there is often a residual value, beyond which it cannot be depreciated. In my case, after my boat was 15 years old, the insurers would not insure "new for old" and only offered the depreciating policy. I had a policy that depreciated the mast at 5% per year, with a residual value of either 10 or 20%, don't remember which. These policies are less expensive, and often are the only thing available for older boats. Labor for repairs is generally not depreciated, so there is motivation to repair rather than replace. One needs to check the coverage clauses, and, whilst I am no great fan of the insurance industry, it is also not fair to simply say, "it was in the fine print, which, of course, I did not bother to read." And, speaking of thinking this all through, it often amounts to insignificant coverage, unless the boat is totaled, and unrepairable, because if it is repairable, and they depreciate all the items, that amount may not rise to the threshold of when they declare the boat a constructive loss.


Sadly, in many conversations with folks, comparing insurance policies, I have yet to meet someone who actually knew which kind of policy they had. Instead, great pride was taken in having found a "great deal", in other words, the least expensive. And those policies are almost always the depreciating ones. And, don't ask how I know this!

That’s exactly our situation.

[smj]

Originally Posted by contrail

To clarify some aspects of insurance: Policies either replace "new for old", which are considerably more expensive policies, or they depreciate to a "market value". In that case, various categories of things are depreciated an amount specified, over a period of years. And there is often a residual value, beyond which it cannot be depreciated. In my case, after my boat was 15 years old, the insurers would not insure "new for old" and only offered the depreciating policy. I had a policy that depreciated the mast at 5% per year, with a residual value of either 10 or 20%, don't remember which. These policies are less expensive, and often are the only thing available for older boats. Labor for repairs is generally not depreciated, so there is motivation to repair rather than replace. One needs to check the coverage clauses, and, whilst I am no great fan of the insurance industry, it is also not fair to simply say, "it was in the fine print, which, of course, I did not bother to read." And, speaking of thinking this all through, it often amounts to insignificant coverage, unless the boat is totaled, and unrepairable, because if it is repairable, and they depreciate all the items, that amount may not rise to the threshold of when they declare the boat a constructive loss.


Sadly, in many conversations with folks, comparing insurance policies, I have yet to meet someone who actually knew which kind of policy they had. Instead, great pride was taken in having found a "great deal", in other words, the least expensive. And those policies are almost always the depreciating ones. And, don't ask how I know this!

That would be agreed value coverage or actual cash value coverage. The actual cash value coverage Is less expensive and will take depreciation into consideration.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by DeValency

so sorry to hear.

Your chances to find the right rigging anywhere in the Caribbean are very slim and shipping from Europe or the US is going to be very expensive and delay you for months. Would suggest motoring to Florida and order everything there.

Originally Posted by contrail

Do you have relevant experience? Why would you say this? There are quite aa few good riggers, lots of parts, and expertise, in various parts of the Caribbean, and it doesn't take that much longer, from the US. Just off the top of my head, I could list facilities in Puerto Rico, the BVI, St. Maarten, Antigua, Martinique, Grenada and Trinidad, and that is just ones I know!

IF you think about it, with just the huge number of actively sailed charter boats, is this not logical? It certainly is a fact.

Hey Contrail,

Of *course* DeValency has relevant experience; he is scrupulously honest - and is speaking first-hand. He purchased his absolutely gorgeous Contest 46 in St.Lucia, I believe, but then had to bring her back to the States to re-rig.

After extensive runaround from the Southern yard where she was berthed, he finally ordered his new rig from his local rigging shop in New England. And shipped it South.

DeValency knows whereof he speaks!

Warmly,
LittleWing77

[LittleWing77]

Just wondering if anyone has heard how Lusca is doing? Last I checked in with them, seems like a month ago now, they were making their way up through the Bahamas to get closer to a jumping-off point to get across to Florida.

They still hadn't found a mast...
LittleWing77

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by SV_Lusca

Thanks for all your support and suggestions. Most seems to suggest to head back to FL. Our insurance just told us that the mast isn’t covered because it is over 20 years old. We will be looking for used parts, wonder if the French islands would have any?

Dave
SV Lusca

On a related note, you will find that many policies pro rate damage coverage based upon age of vessel/components...to the point that they will pay nothing for damage. In effect for most older boats you are just throwing away money on insurance premiums. This might also be a good reminder to re-evaluate your insurance coverage details.

Sorry about your loses.

[SV_Lusca]

We were slowly bobbing our way through the Bahama banks as much as possible. We are now in Bimini waiting for a weather window,

As for finding a mast, things are certainly looking better, Nothing concrete yet but things are taking shape.

As the spars are not covered by the insurance we are looking for the cheapest (but still reliable) route.

Evaluating our options, classic mast, furler mast, used parts, new or a mix of both. We certainly dont want to spend half the value of the boat fixing it.

Dave

[JPA Cate]

Hope you can find a couple of used masts to put together into one good one, Dave.

And when you re-insure, do it with someone honest. Your present insurer has a very bad reputation.

Ann

[SV_Lusca]

Hello everyone, we’ve been in Daytona for 2 weeks (had some land lubber friends over). Also had the opportunity to meet a Quebec sailing family on their way back from a circumnavigation.

They had contacted us about a month ago to let us know that they too had lost their mast at sea (a month after us). Wow, who would of known. They are now motoring back to Canada.

On a good note, we have given a deposit for a mast. Can’t wait to get this incident behind us and move on.

Dave

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by SV_Lusca

Hello everyone, we’ve been in Daytona for 2 weeks (had some land lubber friends over). Also had the opportunity to meet a Quebec sailing family on their way back from a circumnavigation.

They had contacted us about a month ago to let us know that they too had lost their mast at sea (a month after us). Wow, who would of known. They are now motoring back to Canada.

On a good note, we have given a deposit for a mast. Can’t wait to get this incident behind us and move on.

Dave

Thanks for the post!
Good to hear that you made it safe and sound to Florida.
I, and I’m sure others, have been wondering about your progress and I am glad to hear that I know the mast is on the way.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[JPA Cate]

Yes, thanks for letting us all know you arrived safely.

If you've the heart for it, maybe you'd post how that journey was for you and your wife. Most people don't have to endure a dismasting at sea, and will have little idea. When it happened to us, I was frightened enough to go get the PFD's out and bring them to the cockpit...just in case. And, Jim and I just sat hugging each other for a while, after we jettisoned the over-the-side mast. For me, it was a huge, and traumatic event. And it took time for me to get over it. Every time the wind got up over 45 knots, I got scared again. That hasn't changed...but I got okay to go sailing, after working through it. i went for counseling and reiki healing. Worked for me.

Ann