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Old 22-10-2021, 13:21   #1
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Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Sup sailors,

I have a 1971 Morgan 28 sloop and thinking about creating a solent stay.

The easiest way to set a solent stay on my rig would be to fit it to the clevis pin below headstay attachment. On the aft side of masthead, this same size clevis pin is used for the boom stay. I'd guess the size as about 3/8.

A local rigger I talked to said it would get in the way of the headstay. I just don't understand how. It is about an inch below, which I figure is enough space.

It seems the consensus I've found online is that the solent should be rigged 10-12 inches below the headstay. Why is this? Possibly they don't have a masthead with this option?

As far as the deck connection, once again, why can't I connect it just aft of the roller furling/headstay? There is space, although once again, only about an inch or so aft.

And then there's the question of whether or not I'd need an additional backstay. Some say I do, some say I don't.

I'm just trying to figure out what the dangers are of this type of rig. Would the force on my storm sail (I don't even have a storm sail yet but this is the one of the reasons why I'm even considering creating a solent) break the clevis pin? It is slightly smaller than the headstay/backstay clevis which I'd guess is 7/16.

Thanks for your input
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Old 22-10-2021, 13:37   #2
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

The head of a roller reefing system on a geona/jib requires about 3inches of clearance. A bit of trig then tells you that the Solent has to be at least 7 inches down the mast to assure that clearance if the two stays are parallel. Including a safety margin gets you to the recommended 10 inches.
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Old 22-10-2021, 13:52   #3
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but why does the head of a roller reefing need 3 inches of clearance?

I'm struggling to understand how the solent stay would get in the way of the roller furling. If it's not touching but only an inch away then what does it matter? What will happen?
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Old 22-10-2021, 14:32   #4
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

You can get a lot of sag in the head stays, one could be loaded the other not, stay away from the chafe.
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Old 22-10-2021, 14:37   #5
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJackAndo View Post
Sorry if this is a dumb question but why does the head of a roller reefing need 3 inches of clearance?

I'm struggling to understand how the solent stay would get in the way of the roller furling. If it's not touching but only an inch away then what does it matter? What will happen?
What is the diameter of the halyard swivel for your roller furling? How about the diameter of the drum at the bottom? How about the rolled jib? Your clearance needs to be enough to clear all of those things, not just the headstay itself. The swivel and sail are probably a few inches, so that much clearance required at the top, the drum is probably 8-16" (depends on the size of the furler) so that much space needed at the bottom.
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Old 22-10-2021, 18:56   #6
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

With a Solent stay set so close to the forestay that the regular jib flies on, how is the regular jib going to tack? It will be worse than having the mainsail hang up on the backstay - it simply won't go through at the top. Lower down, trying to get the sheets pulled in on the new leeward side will cause the regular jib to backfill against the Solent stay, stalling out the tack entirely. What is the reasoning for adding a separate Solent forestay on such a small boat? I crewed transatlantic on a 38' sloop that had a Solent jib that flew on the forestay: you'd lower the genoa when beating into more than 22 knots and hoist the Solent till it went to 35. Adding another stay is going to make the foredeck really crowded on a 28' boat that should probably not be out in conditions that would warrant setting it.
To learn how much clearance you need for roller-furling sails, rig a spinnaker halyard or really taut line exactly where you want to put the Solent stay. Then try unfurling and furling and see what happens. Don't do this on a windy day.
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Old 22-10-2021, 21:08   #7
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Captain Jack, you need a Solent stay like you need a hole in the head.

It would be a constant irritation, fouling the genny all day every day, making tacking difficult when it wasn't making it impossible, and for what? You would probably hoist the storm jib on it once in your whole life.

If you really must carry a storm jib, get it made with a non-stretch luff rope and just hoist it flying with the spinnaker halyard.

Adding additional standing rigging is almost always seriously counter-productive, especially on a boat which has done perfectly well without it for half a century!
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Old 22-10-2021, 22:20   #8
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

I really wonder about the need for a solent stay on your boat? You have a small boat, a bit tender I'd think, anyhow.

Why not sail with a slightly smaller genoa built with a foam luff so you can reduce the area. Then you don't need a storm jib, in my view. If the wind pipes up you roll up the genoa a bit, then reef the main, (or vice versa), and when there is even still more wind, roll the genoa in all the way and sail on a reefed main by itself. Your boat has a big main, you can sail without a storm jib, or any jib.
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Old 23-10-2021, 00:24   #9
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Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I really wonder about the need for a solent stay on your boat? You have a small boat, a bit tender I'd think, anyhow.

Why not sail with a slightly smaller genoa built with a foam luff so you can reduce the area.

Reefed genoa or jib has bad shape which makes it worse with heavy weather.

Adding a removable stay could be a solution but requires proper attachment and expensive accessories to ensure adequate tension.

How about the simple solution of a storm jib attached over the furled genoa? Might well be adequate for a sailboat of that size.
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Old 23-10-2021, 02:47   #10
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

I took the baby stay which is about the same thing off my rig because it was just in the way of tacking. It was non-structural btw. Sometimes less is more.
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Old 23-10-2021, 05:10   #11
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

I added something between a baby stay and a cutter stay to my Boat that is removable. I set it when going offshore (normal turnbuckle) together with the running back stays for two purposes: 1 to stabilize the mast fore and aft and guard against single points of rigging failure, 2 to fly a hanked on heavy weather jib or a storm jib. Coastal cruising itís removed and stowed at the mast to ease tacking. Best of both worlds.
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Old 23-10-2021, 07:49   #12
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebramar View Post
Reefed genoa or jib has bad shape which makes it worse with heavy weather...
OP has a 28' vessel with a rather large mainsail, it can actually sail without a jib at all.

And foam added to the luff does a lot to improve the shape of a partially rolled up genoa.

So I think he could start off with a somewhat smaller genoa, say 130%, with a foam luff that could work pretty good rolled to100% and if that becomes too much he could just roll it al the way up and sail with the mainsail alone, at whatever level of reef that was appropriate.

No new stays, no hassle tacking through a smaller slot, much simpler.
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Old 23-10-2021, 10:12   #13
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

"Adding a removable stay could be a solution but requires proper attachment and expensive accessories to ensure adequate tension." Yes it does - but it works well when done right, & you've got that spare forestay all ready to go if ever needed. On my ketch it allows a balanced rig with the reefed mizzen.

Or this - the Gale Sail: https://atninc.com/atn-gale-sail-sai...quipment.shtml
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Old 23-10-2021, 11:32   #14
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I really wonder about the need for a solent stay on your boat? You have a small boat, a bit tender I'd think, anyhow.

Why not sail with a slightly smaller genoa built with a foam luff so you can reduce the area. Then you don't need a storm jib, in my view. If the wind pipes up you roll up the genoa a bit, then reef the main, (or vice versa), and when there is even still more wind, roll the genoa in all the way and sail on a reefed main by itself. Your boat has a big main, you can sail without a storm jib, or any jib.
No headsail means little progress upwind.
I hope your main can reef, actually has points for it.
28 ft, would be better to pitch the furler and rig Hank on sails.

They are more work obviously, but furlers lose a lot of pull, because of the cut, IF you can reef it.
Sailing without a jib, severely limits your upwind performance.
You almost have to sail a beam reach to go anywhere.
And are you going to get there soon ,no.

I don't see the practical point of a Solent rig on a small boat.

Personally I feel furlers are convenient, but I don't want one on my vessel.
Except maybe a top down furler for my A sails.

With an extra stay in front of your furler so close, I'd think you'd have some chafing issues.

Other than than barring cost I'd say give it a try and see if it works.

I assume your looking for a way to rig a storm jib, when the winds to much, and you can't reef that furler well enough.
I had a 28 for years, I made sure I had a storm jib, Hanked on, I could swap out quickly if needed, then reef.
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Old 23-10-2021, 11:45   #15
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Re: Dangers of rigging a solent stay like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatyarddog View Post
No headsail means little progress upwind.
I hope your main can reef, actually has points for it.
28 ft, would be better to pitch the furler and rig Hank on sails.

They are more work obviously, but furlers lose a lot of pull, because of the cut, IF you can reef it.
Sailing without a jib, severely limits your upwind performance.
You almost have to sail a beam reach to go anywhere.
And are you going to get there soon ,no.

I don't see the practical point of a Solent rig on a small boat.

Personally I feel furlers are convenient, but I don't want one on my vessel.
Except maybe a top down furler for my A sails.

With an extra stay in front of your furler so close, I'd think you'd have some chafing issues.

Other than than barring cost I'd say give it a try and see if it works.

I assume your looking for a way to rig a storm jib, when the winds to much, and you can't reef that furler well enough.
I had a 28 for years, I made sure I had a storm jib, Hanked on, I could swap out quickly if needed, then reef.
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Boatyarddog, you bring up some good points.

First you mention that no headsail means little progress upwind. True, but in a storm bad enough that you need a storm sail, going upwind might not be the priority (except enough to get off a lee shore, heaven forbid). But some boats have powerful mainsails and can do quite well with the main alone. In the OP's case that is somewhat doubtful. He has a big main but with his very shallow keel any windward work is going to be tough. But only beam reach? I doubt that. Anyhow, mostly you don't need upwind, you need survival.

Yes, the main needs reef points, three I'd recommend.

Hank on sails allow easier sail changes so you can drop the genoa and hank on a small sail (or a storm sail), but few people these days will give up the convenience of roller furling (except I have).
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