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11-01-2021, 02:49
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Hi All,
I’m adding a Solent stay to my Cavalier 32 sloop. My #3 short luff jib will fit on the Solent stay perfectly, but its got luff tape to fit my Furlex furler.
Question 1) I’m planning to use bronze piston sew-on hanks (if I can source them). I’m planning to leave the existing luff tape on the sail and just sew the hanks on with the thread going through the tape. I see no need to remove the luff tape or to put in grommets if I’m using sew-on hanks. Anybody have a comment on this?
Question 2) Does anyone know of a source (preferably in New Zealand) for sew-on type brass piston hanks? Yes, I know all about the bang-on type and also the very expensive Wischard ones, and am not interested in either. And of course NOT plastic hanks!!!
Lots of sloops I know around here are adding Solent stays for the ease and safety of having a heavy weather jib ready to go up without having to do a jib change on a furler. Been there, done that a lot on both cruising and racing boats; not fun in high wind and big seas.
Yes, i know all about so-called roller reefing jibs, but I’m talking about beating to weather in 30+ knots with a sail that has a shape, not a bag.
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11-01-2021, 03:28
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Boat: Farr 43`
Posts: 474
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Talk to a sailmaker about soft hanks.
About as much work as sewing brass piston hanks without the hardware cost.
Less weight aloft and reduced friction/ wear if you are using textile for the inner forestay.
Once you get the idea, buy the required supplies and you'll do it yourself in an afternoon with a sailmakers awl.
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11-01-2021, 10:30
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Thanks for that idea, but I’m not worried about weight aloft and will using 1X19 wire for the stay. i don’t like soft shackles much though they are the “in” thing these days.
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11-01-2021, 22:19
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,794
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Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
You may need to beef up the luff tape to handle the higher point loads of hanks versus the spread out load of a luff groove. Or remove the luff tape and reinforce the sail at each sewn hank location.
We recently did exactly this with our roller furler jib as we replaced our luff foil with a bare forestay. Our jib had luff tape and foam strips. Both foam strips and luff tape were removed, and each hank got a strengthening patch.
As we have a fibre forestay we used soft hanks, but for your wire stay bronze hanks would be perfect.
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12-01-2021, 12:36
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
fxykty, thanks for the suggestion; looks like a nice cat you have there.
I will leave the luff tape in place and add local renforcement to the places where the bronze piston hanks will attach. Its looking like the sew-on type of hanks are very hard to source here in NZ, so I may have to go with the bang-on type and put gromments just behind the luff cord.
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12-01-2021, 15:52
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
For everyone’s general info:
A sailmaker from North sails recommended I unpick one side of the luff tape and insert a thicker/stronger 6mm cord (what’s in there is only 4mm) to act as a boltrope. Then resew that half of the luff tape back onto the sail. Also to add local reinforcements where the grommets will go. He suggests 900mm as appropriate spacing for the hanks. Th bang-on hanks are the only ones available here in NZ, ordering them from US or Europe would be a Covid nightmare. #2 brass piston hanks for 7mm wire are NZ$18 a pop, ouch!
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12-01-2021, 17:09
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
18 Kiwis each??? OUCH indeed!
But if ya wanna sail to Tassie I've got a jar full of such items (some even sew on) and hope to never use them, and you would be welcome to pick through the lot.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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12-01-2021, 22:01
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Hello Jim and Ann,
Lovely offer and I would love to come to Tassy to visit you both and Dorothy Darden (and row/sail her new beautiful Huon Pine dinghy).
Alas that’s not possible now, BUT, any chance you could pick out some appropriate sized hanks and ship them to me, on my coin of course?
Cheers,
Sandy
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16-01-2021, 18:22
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Claiborne,md
Boat: Southern cross 35
Posts: 117
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
In the US I've sourced sew on hanks twice from a used sail shop. They had some saved off an old sail that were in pretty good shape and the price was right.
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16-01-2021, 19:56
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,135
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuku34
Hello Jim and Ann,
Lovely offer and I would love to come to Tassy to visit you both and Dorothy Darden (and row/sail her new beautiful Huon Pine dinghy).
Alas that’s not possible now, BUT, any chance you could pick out some appropriate sized hanks and ship them to me, on my coin of course?
Cheers,
Sandy
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SAndy, at this moment they are buried under a pile of varnishing stuff, but I'll dredge them out and do an inventory asap. What size and how many are you needing, and are you game to re-use bang on hanks? I've had reasonable luck in annealing them and re-bending the tangs, but sometimes they break (guess I'm not so good at heat treating!).
Hope we can help you out...
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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10-04-2021, 13:12
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Hello Jim and Anne,
Thank you for the kind offer re the piston hanks. The hammer-on ones should be around 70mm overall length with an opening of 15mm. The sew-on ones are shorter overall, but have the same opening.
Please let me know if you have any of that size and if so how many.
Re Jane and Shelly: I spoke with Shelly several months ago; Jane was too ill to get on the phone. I have fond memories of them and the Dragon. Old school cruising! The dragon is here in Nelson, on a mooring. I’ve met the current owners who love that old hump-backed bilge keeler.
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22-04-2021, 23:25
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Update and close to this thread:
I’ve made and installed the Solent stay mast tang and halyard guide and had our local rigger make up the 6mm 1X19 wire stay. Our local sail repair lady cut off the old luff tape and sewed on a luff pocket for the new 6mm boltrope and put in grommets for the piston hanks. I was unble to find a local source for sew-on piston hanks; bought new bang-on kind from our sail repair lady. The sail is now all set to test in 25-35kts wind.
Cost to convert the sail which has an 8.4m luff was NZ$420 (mostly for the new piston hanks). The stay cost about NZ$180; so the total cost was NZ$600 excluding my labor (3 hours up the mast and and 1 hour finishing the sail conversion).
Cheers,
Sandy
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09-05-2021, 04:34
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Nelson NZ
Boat: Current yacht:Alden 46, previous yachts:Cavalier 32, Joshua steel ketch -12m, Traveller 32,Rawson 30
Posts: 462
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
I had a chance this week to test the Solent rig in 20-30kts of wind, which is the wind slot the rig was designed to cover. It worked perfectly. Roll up the genoa, set up the Solent stay, hank on the jib, raise it, sheet in.
Cavalier 32’s are very stiff boats and can carry a full main and 135% genoa up to 20kts on the wind. I refuse to sail upwind with a “reefed” roller-furled genoa. Besides terrible shape, this ruins a sail.
The Solent stay connects to a deck tang about 1m behind the forestay, and a mast tang 660mm below the mast truck. I tension it with a turnbuckle. The Solent jib has an 8m luff and just overlaps the cap shrouds.
In the conditions of the test with a 1m sea state, I had one reef in the main. Hard on the wind, the boat was perfectly ballanced, lee rail about 200mm above the water and boat speed 5.5-6kts. (Cav 32’s are very fast and close winded for 32ft, moderate 70’s design, 50% ballast/displacement ratio).
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09-05-2021, 12:35
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,794
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuku34
I had a chance this week to test the Solent rig in 20-30kts of wind, which is the wind slot the rig was designed to cover. It worked perfectly. Roll up the genoa, set up the Solent stay, hank on the jib, raise it, sheet in.
Cavalier 32’s are very stiff boats and can carry a full main and 135% genoa up to 20kts on the wind. I refuse to sail upwind with a “reefed” roller-furled genoa. Besides terrible shape, this ruins a sail.
The Solent stay connects to a deck tang about 1m behind the forestay, and a mast tang 660mm below the mast truck. I tension it with a turnbuckle. The Solent jib has an 8m luff and just overlaps the cap shrouds.
In the conditions of the test with a 1m sea state, I had one reef in the main. Hard on the wind, the boat was perfectly ballanced, lee rail about 200mm above the water and boat speed 5.5-6kts. (Cav 32’s are very fast and close winded for 32ft, moderate 70’s design, 50% ballast/displacement ratio).
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Awesome!!
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09-05-2021, 12:46
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,262
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Re: Converting roller furler (luff tape) jib to hank on
Yeah mine too, it loves jib/1-point reefed main combo too. I can actually put one reef in my jib too. Yes it's a bit of a hassle but the shape is good and I can cover a good wind speed range with it without changing the sail.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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