Complete re-rig going from 1/19 12mm to hamma prostand compact 10mm on FP Lavezzi

[CaptainRivet]

Hi all,
Can I savely swap 1/19 in 12 mm to hamma prostand in 10mm? Headrigger of Jimmy green said I can do it but wanna have more opinions.

I am doing a complete new standing rigging on my 2005 FP Lavezzi.
It has 1/19 in 12mm on the shrouds and diamonds 10mm.
Standard 1/19 in 12mm has a breaking load of 10400kg (KOS, org from Zspar? Even or most likely less). Hamma pro 1/19 compact strand in 10mm has a minimum of 10250kg breaking load, so only 150kg less.
For diamonds it’s 1/19 12mm 7250 kg (KOS, zspar?) and hamma is 6500kg, there it’s 750kg.
Advantages would be:
- less stretch
- no tea staining
- lighter
- ages better
Cost the wire is 25% more expensive but terminals are smaller=cheaper, so cost difference is not big.

The rig on Lavezzi seems on the well dimensioned side, mentioned by my surveyor and head rigger jimmy green agrees to that. This backed up by the facts:
Lavezzi is lightship 6.2t and fully load liveaboard I am at 8.5t (payload is 2750kg so max 9t) and has 90sqm sail area.
The FP Lipari 40ft with 11t lightship and 92sqm sail area has the same mast and rig with 12mm/10mm as the Lavezzi.
The danson outremer 45 opposite of my berth has also 1/19 in 12mm wire too on shrouds and forestay but is longer, has more sail area with laminated sail and fully loaded due to owner at 10t. Outremer is definitely not saving on the rig.
What’s your opinion?

[CaptainRivet]

No one here that can advice on that….
An additional point pins of shrouds and forestay are all 16mm and from the manufacturer sta-lock, Petersen, bluewater, hamma 16mm pin is size for 10mm wire terminals, 12mm have 18.5mm pins.
So hamma pro terminals with 10mm hamma pro strand seems to be the only solution.

[fxykty]

Not sure why you say 1x19 12mm has both 10,400 kg and 7250 kg breaking load - what’s with that? In any case, your numbers show that 10mm Hamma is pretty much the same. Match the fittings to the new wire and you’re done. Less windage and less weight, all good.

BTW, our 2003 Danson 55L has 1x19 12mm diamond stays on the mast and had 1x19 14mm shrouds, now 18mm Dux. Diamonds are just to keep the mast in column and at specified bend - they don’t see huge dynamic loads.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Not sure why you say 1x19 12mm has both 10,400 kg and 7250 kg breaking load - what’s with that? In any case, your numbers show that 10mm Hamma is pretty much the same. Match the fittings to the new wire and you’re done. Less windage and less weight, all good.

BTW, our 2003 Danson 55L has 1x19 12mm diamond stays on the mast and had 1x19 14mm shrouds, now 18mm Dux. Diamonds are just to keep the mast in column and at specified bend - they don’t see huge dynamic loads.

Thank you.
Your rig is one size up from the 45 which makes total sense but also shows the smaller 45 is definitely not on the low spec side if a 10ft longer woth much more sale area has just 1 size up.

With 7250kg i meant 1/19 10mm standard KOS wire breaking strength for the diamond stays, not 12mm. And 1 size down is then 8mm hamma pro strand compacted has 6500kg, so 750kg less which is 10% less.
Diamonds are 10mm standard 1/19 and shrouds/forestay the 12mm.
For the 12mm wire martingale over crossmember also the 10mm hamma pro strand. Yes I use the hamma pro terminals which are also upgraded in breaking load to exceed the wire.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Thank you.
Your rig is one size up from the 45 which makes total sense but also shows the smaller 45 is definitely not on the low spec side if a 10ft longer woth much more sale area has just 1 size up.

With 7250kg i meant 1/19 10mm standard KOS wire breaking strength for the diamond stays, not 12mm. And 1 size down is then 8mm hamma pro strand compacted has 6500kg, so 750kg less which is 10% less.
Diamonds are 10mm standard 1/19 and shrouds/forestay the 12mm.
For the 12mm wire martingale over crossmember also the 10mm hamma pro strand. Yes I use the hamma pro terminals which are also upgraded in breaking load to exceed the wire.

I missed the 10mm / 8mm wire size for the diamonds, now your numbers make sense. So the drop from 10mm to compact strand 8mm is significant and should be checked with a good rigger. Though, you are less likely to see high dynamic loads on diamond stays so 8mm compact strand is probably just fine.

I’m not sure if replacing the martingale stay with compact strand is worth it - that windage is negligible. But it’s also not very long so the wire cost won’t be much more, although you wouldn’t have to change terminals and turnbuckle if you stayed with regular 12mm wire.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I’m not sure if replacing the martingale stay with compact strand is worth it - that windage is negligible. But it’s also not very long so the wire cost won’t be much more, although you wouldn’t have to change terminals and turnbuckle if you stayed with regular 12mm wire.

The martingale I have the same issue with 16mm pin and 12mm terminals have 18.5mm. I need to replace terminals and turnbuckle (looks really bad) too. On the martingale I would use the compacted wire because the material is better corrosion protected, ages better and doesn't get Tea staining plus terminals with 16mm fit. The martingale gets constantly salt water.

Who is a good rigger to ask?
On the diamonds I could also use the 1/19 standard with 10mm because there I don't have the issue with the pins. But I like the compacted wire and it's advantages but using 10mm compacted would weight more. So it needs to work with 8mm or I go standard 10mm.